Air Gun Home :: View topic - New Crosman Venom arrived a couple days ago.

SteveFury · Member

Hi, this is my first post.

I ordered a new Crosman Venom .22 gand it arrived a couple days ago. Although I have some experience with Crosman multi-pump BB/.177g rifles and a few powder guns, this is the first air rifle I've had with more substantial power.

First thing I did was clean the barrel. It took a ton of clean patches and a new bore brush to clean all the gunk out.
I also modified the trigger by removing the trigger spring and adding a shim to the post, as outlined in so many places across the web such as here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHFClP6sRuE

This is my 1st experience with a scope and I am having problems. Please know I am very new to scopes, and have done a lot of reading on the web about zeroing them out.

I am using the scope shipped with the gun, the CenterPoint 3-9-32. I have a paper target with 5 circles drawn in thick black marker about the diameter of a quarter set on a 3/4" plywood backboard measured 20 yards down range.

I want the natural recoil of the rifle to be preserved so I set the forearm on a thick rolled up bath towel, the end of the butt supported by a finger or two and gently squeezing the trigger. The gun recoils freely as it will.

I have ran about 200 Crosman Premier 14.3g domed pellets through the gun. I have spent about 4 hours trying to zero the scope to my 20y target. They tend to group in approx. 4 inch bunches with an occasional flier.
I will pop 4-5 rounds and make appropriate adjustments, but the groups are always off-center. For example I'll pop 4-5 and they group to the left. I'll turn the scope adjustment 4 clicks (for example) right and pop another 4-5.
Seeing no difference in the grouping position I'll click another 4 right. I'll pop another 4-5 and find no difference. The cycle continues until I get 16 clicks. I pop another 4-5 rounds and suddenly it's way to the right of center.
So I start the process again to bring it back to the left.... a few adjustments later it is suddenly too far left.

I try shooting more shots between adjustments to try and jiggle the scope to seat it more completely but it doesn't seem to matter.

I also notice the magnification adjustment is utterly useless at any range at all. It's crystal clear at minimum but quickly blurs as it's moved off of minimum and is a mass of fuzzy colors at maximum magnification.

I don't know if this can be expected with stock shipped CenterPoint scopes or not. I understand they are pretty cheap to begin with. I have sent an email to CenterPoint for suggestions.

I need a group tighter than 4 inches @ 20 yards. I wish this rifle had iron sights but it doesn't. If someone knows of a very low priced scope of good reputation I'd appreciate a model number suggestion.

My primary use for this rifle is target practice, and an occasional hunt for small game. I think these setbacks will be only temporary, and I am otherwise 110% impressed with this gun especially after fixing the trigger. A single pellet is punched almost all the way through 3/4" birch plywood, and blasts all the way through it if grouped too many times in the same spot!

Thanks in advance!
-Steve

robert w · Senior Member

i sent you a message on your introduction post on how to improve your gun and it works great too

robert w · Senior Member

also send that scope back . i had a bad scope from the start too. they will get you another quickly. the replacement scope is always a better scope than the 1 they include. i put a diffrent scope on my gun while waitin for the replacement and left it packed up for a while then i got another gun in a trade and used it on the traded gun . its a real nice scope .

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

When a scope zero does not move when the adjuster is turned a few clicks then suddenly starts to move it is because there is play or stiffness in the mechanism. There is nothing you can do about it apart from stripping the scope down and fixing it, but this would require some knowledge and re-gassing, so it’s a none starter. Better to send it back for a replacement, or buy a better one.

Before doing anything try resetting the adjusters, to do this screw each adjuster in as far as it will go then screw it out all the way and count the number of turns, then screw in half way.
Now take a few shots and see how far the zero is out, if is it is a long way then this could possibly be your problem, one adjuster is hard against it’s spring and the other is not, so you need to pack the mounts to equalise the adjusters.

Al

SteveFury · Member

This is just a note- I'm near the bottom of the tin of Crosman domed pellets, so it seems I've ran about 400 shots through the rifle so far. Yesterday I bought a new tin, 500 Benjamin PCP Discovery 14.3g hollow points to try. Unfortunately my practice is rained out today.

I got home from work last night (About 1am) and spent some quiet time out on my back deck waiting to see if a problem raccoon would show. It did not. I'd rather not keep any kind of airgun pressurized when I'm not tending to it so I needed to discharge it.
I live in a rural subdivision and was concerned about a loud crack of a discharging gun in the middle of the night.

I pointed it in the air toward the direction of open farm land and expected a "BANG". All I got was an insignificant "PFT". I went inside the house and my wife said she barely heard anything at all. I just wanted to say how impressed I've been thus far.

Thank you for the scope tips, I'll see what CenterPoint has to say.

SteveFury · Member

The manual says the rifle has an approximate 100 shot break in cycle before it obtains good accuracy. I have also read personal experiences where it took 500-600 rounds before grouping gets better.

I had cleaned the barrel when I first got the rifle and before shooting. Since then have ran 400-450 rounds so far.

I didn't have much time to practice today but I did try my new Benjamin PCP Discovery 14.3g hollow points. They are the same weight round I've been using before. I simply set the target up at my 20 yard marker, loaded the new rounds and fired at the bottom center target. I did no scope adjustment, just load and fire some rounds.

I was in a comfortable sitting position, gun resting gently on my open palm, held loosely and fired.

Assuming the scope internal components aren't shifting, is this the grouping I can expect thus far? I know it's pulling to the right but is the group typical at this point?

I noticed my Crossman Premier rounds had to be pushed into the rifling when loading. You could feel the grooves cutting into the lead. The Benjamin's fit a lot looser. Both seem to group about the same so far.

Regarding a possible bad scope, I received an automated response from CenterPoint thanking me for contacting them and I still await a "real" reply.

Thanks for your opinion!

viper2788 · Member

I've had the same problem when I had my Venom. I eventually gave up on the scope it came with, and upgraded to a Centerpoint 4-16/40mm adventure class scope. It got my groupings down to about 2 inches at 35yrds, and I was able to hit cans at 50, 60 and 75 yrds. But still, it never was as consistent as I'd wanted it to be, and I never really got the "hold" down.

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

The grouping is terrible at 20 yards, I would expect 1” groups to just be acceptable at that range, a good airgun will shoot ragged holes at 20 yards, it could be the pellets which aren’t helping try a different domed one, and stay away from any fancy looking ones.

Another thing is have you redone the muzzle crown, if not get it done it can make a lot of difference.

Al

toadmyster223 · Senior Member

I'm going to venture to guess that your scope just isn't mounting solidly. Same problem with a Gamo Viper. Make sure all the mounting screws are tight. just be careful not to crush the tube. I had to rough up the landing on the mount, and paint a little loctite on, because the gun would kick out from under the scope. Was furious, took a long time to figure the problem out. That Centerpoint should be a reasonably good scope.

SteveFury · Member

Thank you all for the feedback.
I'll try some different domed pellets. I have not done any mods to the gun except to put a much lighter trigger return spring and a longer adjustment screw. I am kind of hesitant to do a crowning at this point in time for warranty sake. (I could always put the trigger back to original if I needed to)

I check the scope mounting screws before shooting. Sometimes one or two on the tube clamp work loose, and all get a snug-down. I don't trust the scope and it won't focus at all unless its at absolute minimum magnification.

I have just sent CenterPoint another email, I have yet to hear from them other than a canned automated response.

-Steve

toadmyster223 · Senior Member

You're never going to find accuracy if anything is unsnugging, at all.

Is it an adjustable objective scope? Being new to scopes, maybe you didn't notice? Just a shot in the dark.

SteveFury · Member

Thanks.
I will shoot around 100 rounds and 1 or 2 hex screws might work a bit, and maybe 1/8 turn brings it back snug. Everything seems very secure, nothing seemss to be shifting.

I got a real response from CenterPoint and they provided an address to ship the defective scope to. If nothing else, the focus is horribly off so I'll be sending it back to them in a few days. The objective is not adjustable. At least it is not designed to be.
-Steve

SteveFury · Member

Everyone likes pictures so here goes.

I was very busy shooting this morning, sometimes in the drizzly wetness. I ran maybe 150 additional rounds with the Benjamin PCP Discovery 14.3g hollow points.
This time in the standing position, gun but snuggled in the shoulder but not tight, the gun resting on my open palm and my open palm touching an overhead deck support post for stability.

I don't have the actual diameter size of the circle but it was traced around the inside ring of a regular 1/2" roll of masking tape, so I'm guessing probably about 3-1/2 diameter target. The target distance is 20 yards.

It was the last group I shot, about 15 rounds.

Gawd what a cheap scope this is! I noticed I can gently rotate the magnification ring clockwise, and when it reaches its stop at 3x the reticules rotate a small bit inside the scope tube! Because of this I am keeping it off its minimum of 3x and onto 4x. I've also applied lock-tite to the tube clamp hex screws.

Anyway I really love the gun, I'm getting used to it and a new scope is on my future shopping list. I need an illuminated reticule anyway.

An odd thing happened.
We have 4 outdoor pet cats. I was shooting targets and noticed them playing with something on the ground near my feet. I looked and there's a squirrel they've caught. They'd already chewed a leg off and playing with it. Poor thing would jump, hobble around before a cat would bat it around, clamp it in its jaw until it squeaked then drop it. My how cruel animals can be! I gave the poor suffering thing a brain shot from a few inches away. Then one of the cats ate the whole thing. Bones, hide, tail, everything.

SteveFury · Member

So it seems my grouping is slowly improving and the rifle is shooting a bit harder.

Although it's not as accurate as a Chronograph, I am using an Android program called "Chrono Connect". You enter target distance, muzzle distance and distance from trajectory, and ammo information.
I shoot at a heavy gauge steel plate angled downward and it calculates the muzzle blast to the impact time to come up with an estimated FPS and power.
I took 5 shots when I first got the gun using the 14.3g domed pellets for an average of 749FPS @ 17.8 FTLBF.

I did the same test this afternoon and 5 shots showed 770FPS @ 18.8FTLBF.

The rifle it replaced was my Crosman Powermaster 66. It shows 556FPS and power of 4.9FTLBF with its .177 ammo average across 5 shots.

robert w · Senior Member

be sure and get all screws tight. i use a drop of BLUE LOCKTITE on all screws as a loose screw whither scope mount or stock screws will seriously kill accuracy.