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Air Gun Home Forum Index » Rifles » Curious if this will work on break barrels    View previous topic :: View next topic  Curious if this will work on break barrels   Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:17 pm AGBug Member Joined: 03 Mar 2013 Posts: 62 Location: Illinois / Wisconsin / Global Hello fellow AGH members. For all those who have (or have had) break barrel air rifles in either spring or gas piston, we all know about barrel vibration (harmonic resonance). and how this can throw a shot before the pellet leaves the gun (and it's uncomfortable to say the very least). This happens more so in the springers do to the spring resonance in the cylinder which vibrates right up through the barrel. To assist in thwarting this effect, the below is my idea (curiosity) towards resolving the problem while providing more stability, accuracy and groupings. So this is what I have asked myself: "Self! You have shot big bore center-fire rifles which had a barrel de-resonator on them and they worked wonders, so do you think it would help on an air rifle?" To answer this--of which I will share once they have arrived and have been tested--I have ordered two models: The Sims LimbSaver Barrel De-Resonator (Fits Barrels 1/2" to 7/8" outside diameter). ...and the LimbSaver Bull Barrel De-Resonator (Fits Barrels 7/8" to 1 1/8" outside diameter). This is what they promise... Designed to dampen out unwanted vibration by shortening the overall settling time of the barrel. The accuracy benefit is immediate, providing sub-minute angle groups with over-the-counter factory ammunition. This easy-to-install unit simply slips over most standard barrels. Designed and manufactured with our proprietary NAVCOM™ (Noise and Vibration Control Material), and engineered for optimum performance utilizing Sims Vibration Laboratory’s DTMS (Decay Time Modification System). If you are looking for performance & accuracy, trust LimbSaver®, the makers of “Products That Work!”™ Improves Accuracy Tightens Groups Dampens Barrel Whip Designed for Scoped Rifles Fits Multiple Barrel Sizes Two Sizes to Choose From Easy to Install Watch Your Groups Shrink! Ok, enough of their sellers spiel. Basically, they both cost $9.99 and are lightweight--a few ounces--and they slide up towards the stock and action of the rifle. I did notice a big change when firing the center-fire rifles, so my exploration is merely a test to see if it improves overall control and resonance on a break barrel. It might not (*shrugs*) and if not, not big loss. They will just be used on my big bore rifles. They sell these at Cabela's, Walnut Creek Archery, eBay (if you see them for more than $9.99 for 1pc, keep shopping), and of course their site limbsaver.com (they are noted last because yes, this is their product, but no, they have no product details which to me, made no absolute sense). Well, let me know your thoughts if you have already tried this route. As I stated, once I receive them and test them, I will review it up and let everyone know what I think. My buddy who is a mechanical precision test engineer said he has the perfect vibration/resonance meter we can use to test this out (not to be confused with electrical resonance) and I will probably build a gauge apparatus for other testing. Just note, this is purely to dampen the resonance effect and not the recoil of a break barrel rifle. Okay, yeah, it might seem like a lot of work for something anyone can get used to and adjust to as well, but if a simple $10 product can be proven to help us air gunners, well, it's worth it. Plus, isn't that part of the fun of air gunning? Mod-mod and more mod! Well, I will keep you all posted. Thanks! Last edited by AGBug on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:38 pm; edited 2 times in total _________________ “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” -- Dr. Carl Sagan Proud member of the National Rifle Association and serving as a two-time enlistee in two branches of the US military (USN/USAF - Currently a USAF Reservist)   Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:30 pm toadmyster223 Senior Member Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 501 Location: Fayette Nam, PA Sounds reasonable to me. Can't wait to see your results   Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:46 pm AGBug Member Joined: 03 Mar 2013 Posts: 62 Location: Illinois / Wisconsin / Global toadmyster223 wrote: Sounds reasonable to me. Can't wait to see your results Yeah, me too. I am hoping to digi-video the process, but if not there will be plenty of pictures and a full write up. _________________ “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” -- Dr. Carl Sagan Proud member of the National Rifle Association and serving as a two-time enlistee in two branches of the US military (USN/USAF - Currently a USAF Reservist)   Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:38 pm lampy Veteran Member Joined: 04 Aug 2012 Posts: 297 Location: South Dakota I'm looking forward to your review, I know of a few people using these but have never seen a proper review done on them. _________________ Too many projects to list.   Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:52 pm robert w Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2012 Posts: 574 Location: usa curiosity killed the cat, im curious and am wantin to see how they work keep us posted _________________ ,crosman 400,gamo big cat in .22, diana 5g,diana 54 air king, diana 34 in .22 diana 34 in .177, wilrauch hw-55,and a romainian pioner training rifle , and a huge collection of powder burners 35 last count . 1 would think i have a gun store   Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:45 am viper2788 Member Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 98 Location: Montgomery County, MD I'm curious about this too... awhile back i thought of using harmonic dampers(for compound bows) on my nitro piston but never got around to doing so. I'd love to hear results!   Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:00 pm AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6929 Location: "Out There" Installing a muzzle brake, tuned for your specific setup (i.e. weight of the brake) should do the same thing- but custom for your rifle, not an "off the shelf" piece that may or may not work optimally on your specific setup. _________________ ` I'd say "I care." But I'd be lying. Canadian Airgun Supplier: http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront   Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:32 pm AGBug Member Joined: 03 Mar 2013 Posts: 62 Location: Illinois / Wisconsin / Global AirGunEric wrote: Installing a muzzle brake, tuned for your specific setup (i.e. weight of the brake) should do the same thing- but custom for your rifle, not an "off the shelf" piece that may or may not work optimally on your specific setup. I agree with you and would have a muzzle break on most of my rifles, but not every brand of rifle out there either has a custom part(s) for them, or what is available is not compatible because of barrel designs, materials used, etc. As an example, one of the spring pistons I plan on testing this on is the Gamo Big Cat 1250; a beast of a rifle with a horrible twang from the spring resulting in a horrible resonance issue and we all know about Gamo's is that there are very few options for them because they are considered to be quite substandard by many despite the power-plants they offer. The barrel is also odd because for one the shroud is plastic and fluted approximately 2" from the tip. I suppose the main reason for this is to find an inexpensive, low weight resolution (or at least a notable reduction) in the problems such rifles present. Weight is a big factor with this because there are many springer brands/models out there which are heavy enough with high cock tensions, so taking one in the field causes more fatigue to the bearer than the overall quality of the rifle. To add a brake, often heavy, but many not, just might cause more harm than good to these types of rifles. Surely there are great air gun smiths out there that could easily build a brake for any rifle, and there are plenty of off market solutions that may be compatible, but a $10 purchase compared to an unknown cost and time (especially if said brake is being constructed as a custom) is key. Most importantly, if this does work, providing the which type of de-resonator size you purchased fits all your barrel diameters (hence why I bought both), one could easily swap it from one rifle to the other in a breeze and hit the field. *Shrugs* Yes this whole thing might be futile on my end, but I won't know until they arrive, get my buddy over here with his meters and I do my tests. Also, it will be a lot of fun and another self-reasoned excuse to why I am shooting a bunch of lead at a target . In the end it will be a good round of tests to perform and time well spent. I often do need a break from my job of configuring a router, firewall or switch which is made in America, from parts from China/India/Korea, for a company in Germany, which just so happens is currently based in the Philippines (or elsewhere) . Thanks! _________________ “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” -- Dr. Carl Sagan Proud member of the National Rifle Association and serving as a two-time enlistee in two branches of the US military (USN/USAF - Currently a USAF Reservist)   Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:52 pm jlpollard New Member Joined: 06 Apr 2013 Posts: 9 Location: El Cajon, CA. I'll bet it helps it feel a little more dead in the hand. We use the same type of vibration dampeners for archery and they help with the bow shock.   Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:56 pm Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA Quote: tuned for your specific setup (i.e. weight of the brake) Position is important also. When I did the Slavia I made a brake from a piece of paintball barrel and shims. I shot groups with at different positions on the barrel (increments of 0.050"). The difference between the "sweet" spot and the worst group was about 1/4". _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:00 pm AGBug Member Joined: 03 Mar 2013 Posts: 62 Location: Illinois / Wisconsin / Global Slavia wrote: Quote: tuned for your specific setup (i.e. weight of the brake) Position is important also. I agree 100%! Yes, position is more than key! _________________ “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” -- Dr. Carl Sagan Proud member of the National Rifle Association and serving as a two-time enlistee in two branches of the US military (USN/USAF - Currently a USAF Reservist)   Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:05 pm AGBug Member Joined: 03 Mar 2013 Posts: 62 Location: Illinois / Wisconsin / Global viper2788 wrote: I'm curious about this too... awhile back i thought of using harmonic dampers(for compound bows) on my nitro piston but never got around to doing so. and... jlpollard wrote: I'll bet it helps it feel a little more dead in the hand. We use the same type of vibration dampeners for archery and they help with the bow shock. Exactly! The interesting thing is, after doing a little research on the company that makes the LimbSaver, they are all about archery, and one of their engineers took a new de-resonator design, shrugged his shoulders and slipped it over the barrel of an old .30-06 because it looked as if it would fit, and got amazing results. After that, the rifle barrel version was born (post a little redesign). Albeit, I don't think they had us air-gunners in mind (YET!). Thanks! _________________ “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” -- Dr. Carl Sagan Proud member of the National Rifle Association and serving as a two-time enlistee in two branches of the US military (USN/USAF - Currently a USAF Reservist)   Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:39 pm Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA The rubber part is unique, but hanging a weight on the barrel to dampen harmonic vibrations is not. Browning does it with their Boss system: And Ruger has one on their Mini 14: _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:45 pm radar Silver Status Member Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Posts: 1138 Location: Des Moines, Iowa, USA Might just work. I put about 6 oz of duct seal under the shroud on my Trail and it made a world of difference on hold and pellet sensitivity. Of course it's all spread out, and not in one place like the Limbsaver or BOSS. _________________ It's never too late to have a happy childhood. 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