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Air Gun Home Forum Index » Rifles » Lube and repair questions    View previous topic :: View next topic  Lube and repair questions   Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:32 am Macruadhi New Member Joined: 03 May 2011 Posts: 4 I have two guns to repair and I'm nervous about diving into them. The first rifle I took apart never worked again, but that was when I was 15. So how hard is it to regasket air guns? They're both multi pump models, a badly neglected Remington airmaster 77 and a Crosman 1322 that I ruined the gaskets with WD40. And what lubricants does one use that is gasket, seal, and everything else friendly?   Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:55 am domer_pyle Senior Member Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Posts: 523 The Airmaster is the same as a Crosman 2100 and I can tell you that they are a royal b!tch to put back together, both of mine I opened up shot parts out of the breech right as it was coming apart. And on top of that you need about 4 hands to hold them all and put everything in place. It can be done though, I used very thin wire to kind of tie the parts into either side of the breech and when they were together untied the 2 strings and slid them out before tightening the screws. There are a few things you can find with Google that have helpful pictures too. Good luck   Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:14 am AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6930 Location: "Out There" Use Crosman Pellgunoil or a non-detergent 30-weight engine oil to lubricate Co2 and pump-up guns. _________________ ` I'd say "I care." But I'd be lying. Canadian Airgun Supplier: http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront   Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:16 am Crosman140 Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 663 Location: USA AirGunEric wrote: a non-detergent 30-weight engine oil to lubricate Co2 and pump-up guns. Doesn't the petroleum break down the rubber seals? _________________ My Critter Gitters .22 Crosman 140 (1955) .177 Crosman G1 (2009) .177 Crosman 1377 (2009) .177 Daisy 880 (2019) BB Daisy Red Ryder (2012) BB Daisy Buck (2019) BB Crosman 1600 (1980) BB Marksman 1010 (1979)   Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:03 pm AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6930 Location: "Out There" Pellgunoil is petroleum oil- just tinted red. And no, it seems it is the detergents in regular engine oil that eat the seals (slowly)- thus the "non detergent" specification. Of course, some people might not pay attention to this and just go get a container of 5W30 and then have their seals go funky... _________________ ` I'd say "I care." But I'd be lying. Canadian Airgun Supplier: http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront   Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:02 pm Crosman140 Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 663 Location: USA AirGunEric wrote: Pellgunoil is petroleum oil- just tinted red. And no, it seems it is the detergents in regular engine oil that eat the seals (slowly)- thus the "non detergent" specification. Of course, some people might not pay attention to this and just go get a container of 5W30 and then have their seals go funky... Good information. Thanks. _________________ My Critter Gitters .22 Crosman 140 (1955) .177 Crosman G1 (2009) .177 Crosman 1377 (2009) .177 Daisy 880 (2019) BB Daisy Red Ryder (2012) BB Daisy Buck (2019) BB Crosman 1600 (1980) BB Marksman 1010 (1979) Ok, now it's apart...   Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:50 pm Macruadhi New Member Joined: 03 May 2011 Posts: 4 I've gotten it fully disassembled and have gotten all I can out of the pump tube without tools, how do I get the rest of the parts out? I am also wondering about the part that attaches to the lever/link assembly, the parts diagram shows it as being part #2200E016, but neither the name or price is listed. Anybody know what it's called? Does it come apart?   Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:51 pm donec Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2009 Posts: 836 Location: central Texas Pflugerville area Crosman140 wrote: AirGunEric wrote: Pellgunoil is petroleum oil- just tinted red. And no, it seems it is the detergents in regular engine oil that eat the seals (slowly)- thus the "non detergent" specification. Of course, some people might not pay attention to this and just go get a container of 5W30 and then have their seals go funky... Good information. Thanks. I contacted Crosman customer service and ask them about Pellgunoil and this is their reply. Quote: Don, Our Pellgun oil has no petroleum distillates, and most others do. The petroleum distillates will eat the seals in our guns. You'd be better off using automatic transmission fluid. I was told by an engineer that that's what the Pellgun oil is. Thanks for contacting Crosman. Have a great day! Jan   Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:12 am kanyon Silver Status Member Joined: 09 Aug 2008 Posts: 1582 Location: New Zealand Crosman140 wrote: AirGunEric wrote: a non-detergent 30-weight engine oil to lubricate Co2 and pump-up guns. Doesn't the petroleum break down the rubber seals? rubber oil seals / O-rings / gaskets etc are used to seal petroleum products... how much rubber has yer car got in the engine & fuel system _________________ Career Infinity PCP .22 Webley Patriot .25 Hatsan mod 75 .22 Hatsan mod 99 .177 (Quattro & SAS) Kral underlever .177 ............................................. .   Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:54 am Crosman140 Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 663 Location: USA AirGunEric wrote: Pellgunoil is petroleum oil- just tinted red. donec wrote: I contacted Crosman customer service and ask them about Pellgunoil and this is their reply. Don, Our Pellgun oil has no petroleum distillates, and most others do. The petroleum distillates will eat the seals in our guns. You'd be better off using automatic transmission fluid. I was told by an engineer that that's what the Pellgun oil is. Thanks for contacting Crosman. Have a great day! Jan "Automatic Transmission Fluid" Now this is starting to make sense. Thus the "red" color. ATF is red. I've also heard others using ATF for their airguns as a lube and gun coat. Interesting. Thanks for contacting Crosman, donec. _________________ My Critter Gitters .22 Crosman 140 (1955) .177 Crosman G1 (2009) .177 Crosman 1377 (2009) .177 Daisy 880 (2019) BB Daisy Red Ryder (2012) BB Daisy Buck (2019) BB Crosman 1600 (1980) BB Marksman 1010 (1979)   Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:46 am SMP Silver Status Member Joined: 04 Feb 2011 Posts: 1183 Location: Just south of "Out There"- Land O Lakes Ontario This is starting to make some sense Motor oils are created from petroleum base stocks and ATF is actually a hydraulic fluid created from mineral base stock. Petroleum base stocks have high inherent acidity and mineral base stocks have a low inherent acidity Detergents are added to motor oils to break down and suspend carbon deposits created in combustion. The seals in our guns are typically one or another form of polycarbonate (many carbons) Therefore it seems reasonable that the detergent can break down the carbon chains of the seals. Just another fun geek fact   Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:28 am AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6930 Location: "Out There" donec wrote: Don, Our Pellgun oil has no petroleum distillates, and most others do. The petroleum distillates will eat the seals in our guns. You'd be better off using automatic transmission fluid. I was told by an engineer that that's what the Pellgun oil is. Thanks for contacting Crosman. Have a great day! Jan Somehow, every time this topic comes up anywhere- some Crosman "quote" is pulled out where the idea is that PelGunOil is not a petroleum distillate product/not engine oil. In the above quote- they have outright contradicted themselves- engine oil and ATF are as much a petroleum distillate product as one another (they are both petroleum oils and by nature, some distillates will be in them). I think their customer service people have confused Pellgunoil with their Silicone Chamber Lube- or simply have no idea what they're talking about. One thing to note of course, ATF has a distinctive smell- PellGunOil does not have this odour. Here's the MSDS sheet for Pellgunoil right on Crosman's website: http://www.crosman.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf -clearly indicating it is a GFS SAE 30 engine oil Now, it's possible that this is an older MSDS (MSDS's have been around for what, about 25 years now?) and perhaps PellGunOil is now in fact a low-odour ATF- but is absolutely was engine oil at one point (without detergents)- and ATF is designed to NOT eat seals as an automatic transmission is full of them. As for the argument "cars are full of rubber seals"- this is comparing apples to oranges. The ONLY seals in an oil-soaked environment in a car engine are typically the valvestems (or auto transmissions- see above about ATF)- and these seals are made of Viton- or the gasket materials for things such as the timing chain cover or such- which are stationary and compressed and guarded from the oil for the most part, but do disintegrate from the edges inward over time. Excluding the valve seals- no other "rubber" seals are in any sort of constant motion/flow environment as many in an airgun are (i.e. pump cups, transfer sleeves, etc.). Fuel system seals are now made of Viton as well, and older vehicles with "rubber" fuel line joints in them absolutely did disintegrate over time. Re: Ok, now it's apart...   Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:36 am AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6930 Location: "Out There" Back to the original topic: Macruadhi wrote: I've gotten it fully disassembled and have gotten all I can out of the pump tube without tools, how do I get the rest of the parts out? I am also wondering about the part that attaches to the lever/link assembly, the parts diagram shows it as being part #2200E016, but neither the name or price is listed. Anybody know what it's called? Does it come apart? Please be more specific on what you mean in the first statement- what parts are removed and what are you stuck on? 2200E016 is called the "connecting rod" and has the pump cup on the end of it. If the rod is not damaged, leave it alone and replace only the cup- part # 760-140 _________________ ` I'd say "I care." But I'd be lying. Canadian Airgun Supplier: http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront   Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:59 pm Macruadhi New Member Joined: 03 May 2011 Posts: 4 I was wondering if I needed to check the parts that remain in the pump tube, the valve assembly. Before I disassembled it, the rifle would not pump up. It looks as though it was left in the rain and the inside of the tube is a bit rusty. Short of some sort of cylinder hone, any ideas on cleaning that up? Keep in mind that this project is practice for when I'm ready to rebuild a 1322. Thanks Lube and repair questions     Air Gun Home Forum Index » Rifles You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours   Page 1 of 1   All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum Main Forums----------------AirGunHome Q&AGeneral Air Gun Questions and TopicsPicture GalleryTarget Shooting: Casual, Fun and CompetitionHunting, Pest Control, Varminting People/Events/Airgun Issue Discussion----------------Introduce YourselfThe BS TopicClubs/Events/Regional/Political Airgun Issues Maintenance, Modification and Reviews----------------RiflesPistolsAntique, Collector and Novelty AirgunsBB GunsPellets/AmmoOpticsAccessoriesAirgun Smithing Buy, Sell or Trade Forums----------------For SaleWant to Buy   Note: If you are seeing "Please enter your username and password to log in." 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