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Air Gun Home Forum Index » General Air Gun Questions and Topics » regulated PCP    View previous topic :: View next topic  regulated PCP   Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:45 am jimineecricket Member Joined: 03 Feb 2011 Posts: 83 Location: beaver dam Hi just wondering who all makes regulated PCP airguns. I am new to the PCP world and am looking into getting one just dont know where to start. THanks JIm   Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:00 am bones Member Joined: 11 Feb 2011 Posts: 24 Location: all over travel 4 work, (right now AL) not regulated but if you are just starting out w/ a pcp i would get a discovery. easy to use and modify if you want and only needs 2000 lbs of air. the one i bought came with a pump that is still working great. i have used the pump on my Daq. that needs 3000 lbs. don't like the extra effort involved in going from 2k to 3k with a hand pump. _________________ 1377 .177 Disco .177 Daq .50   Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:25 pm rsterne Moderator Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 2998 Location: Coalmont, BC There are very few regulated PCPs on the market.... BSA have one, AA have their top-of-the-line EV2, and the Walther Dominator 1250 are three I am aware of.... Bob _________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! Airsonal: Too many to count!   Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:11 pm broommaster2000 Moderator Joined: 10 Mar 2007 Posts: 5714 Location: City of Groningen, Groningen, The Netherlands Also: The BSA Superten (discontinued) and R10. Daystate produces some models too. Fx Cyclone I think too. _________________ BIG GAP   Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:42 am packrat Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2009 Posts: 882 Location: Out in the woods...Ellabell, GA. You're going to have to spend some serious cash to get a regulated gun..Since you're just getting into this, you might want to give serious consideration to this before plunking down your bucks-you MIGHT spend $1000.00 or more for gun then discover you don't care for airgunning like you thought you would _________________ HEY !! This getting old thing is NOT for sissies...   Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:53 pm jimineecricket Member Joined: 03 Feb 2011 Posts: 83 Location: beaver dam packrat wrote: You're going to have to spend some serious cash to get a regulated gun..Since you're just getting into this, you might want to give serious consideration to this before plunking down your bucks-you MIGHT spend $1000.00 or more for gun then discover you don't care for airgunning like you thought you would Ah no worrry there I have had a few rws's and now I have a disco .22, mrod .25, AR6 .22, and a 1077, 392, and a 1377 :D I just have not been into precharged for that long. I am a serious Archery Competitor :D been doing that for 8 years now and need some new fun. Don't seen to be many events in WI. ANyhow I know a regulated PCP should shoot better and get more shots. Down side is CHA CHING!!!! which is not overly aboundate by any means. Luckily I don't do anything but shoot hunt and fish :D Oh yea I really love my AR and the Mrod too!   Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:49 pm packrat Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2009 Posts: 882 Location: Out in the woods...Ellabell, GA. AH so !! SO you're already addicted like some of here, huh? _________________ HEY !! This getting old thing is NOT for sissies...   Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:38 pm rsterne Moderator Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 2998 Location: Coalmont, BC Quote: I know a regulated PCP should shoot better and get more shots Not necessarily so.... The number of shots will depend on the power setting (ie regulator output pressure).... As an example, take your MRod.... Let's assume you are filling to 3000 psi and shooting down to 2000 psi.... so the average pressure is 2500, and you are getting 45 FPE at that pressure.... with slightly less at 3000 psi and 2000 psi.... Let's assume that the shot string is within 5% in velocity throughout the string.... ie 855 fps at beginning and end, and 900 in the middle, with 25 gr. pellets.... If you set the regulator pressure at 2000 psi, you would expect to get 855 fps.... but you may not.... It will depend on the volume between the regulator and the valve.... Many regulators are right up against the valve, or even part of the valve (as in the Dominator).... and have minimal volume downstream of the regulator.... This has the effect of lowering the AVERAGE pressure during the shot cycle, particularly at high power levels when the valve is open long enough to use a lot of air.... If the average pressure is lower, you will get less power.... In addition, non-regulated PCPs tend to actually be more efficient at the beginning of the shot string when air pressure is high and the valve is only open for a very short time.... That is why the Disco is quite quiet for the first half of the shot string.... It's using less air (about half) and wasting less.... so making less noise.... The first 5 shots in a Disco use only about 20 psi per shot.... while the last 5 shots use about 40 psi.... while the velocity is virtually the same.... Since the regulated gun is always operating at the "bottom end" of what would normally be the bell-curve in a non-regulated PCP.... it tends to be less efficient.... Using the Disco example, you would expect it to use 40 psi per shot.... Where the regulated gun really comes into it's own is when you cut the power down and set the regulator to (using our MRod example above) 1500 psi.... Now, instead of only being able to use 1000 psi of pressure drop (ie a third of the reservoir) before the velocity drops off.... you can use 1500 psi (half the reservoir).... You will have to accept that the power you get will be less.... but your shot count will increase.... Once the gun is tuned for best efficiency at the lower power level.... you will end up with a very flat velocity string and lots of shots.... Reduce the pressure to 1000 psi and you lose even more power.... but you get tons of shots.... more than you could ever get (and still have an acceptable velocity deviation) with a non-regulated PCP.... Bob _________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! Airsonal: Too many to count!   Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:35 pm jimineecricket Member Joined: 03 Feb 2011 Posts: 83 Location: beaver dam packrat wrote: AH so !! SO you're already addicted like some of here, huh? Ya I am addict :D at the first step is admitting it and the next step is enjoying IT!!   Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:46 pm jimineecricket Member Joined: 03 Feb 2011 Posts: 83 Location: beaver dam rsterne wrote: Quote: I know a regulated PCP should shoot better and get more shots Not necessarily so.... The number of shots will depend on the power setting (ie regulator output pressure).... As an example, take your MRod.... Let's assume you are filling to 3000 psi and shooting down to 2000 psi.... so the average pressure is 2500, and you are getting 45 FPE at that pressure.... with slightly less at 3000 psi and 2000 psi.... Let's assume that the shot string is within 5% in velocity throughout the string.... ie 855 fps at beginning and end, and 900 in the middle, with 25 gr. pellets.... If you set the regulator pressure at 2000 psi, you would expect to get 855 fps.... but you may not.... It will depend on the volume between the regulator and the valve.... Many regulators are right up against the valve, or even part of the valve (as in the Dominator).... and have minimal volume downstream of the regulator.... This has the effect of lowering the AVERAGE pressure during the shot cycle, particularly at high power levels when the valve is open long enough to use a lot of air.... If the average pressure is lower, you will get less power.... In addition, non-regulated PCPs tend to actually be more efficient at the beginning of the shot string when air pressure is high and the valve is only open for a very short time.... That is why the Disco is quite quiet for the first half of the shot string.... It's using less air (about half) and wasting less.... so making less noise.... The first 5 shots in a Disco use only about 20 psi per shot.... while the last 5 shots use about 40 psi.... while the velocity is virtually the same.... Since the regulated gun is always operating at the "bottom end" of what would normally be the bell-curve in a non-regulated PCP.... it tends to be less efficient.... Using the Disco example, you would expect it to use 40 psi per shot.... Where the regulated gun really comes into it's own is when you cut the power down and set the regulator to (using our MRod example above) 1500 psi.... Now, instead of only being able to use 1000 psi of pressure drop (ie a third of the reservoir) before the velocity drops off.... you can use 1500 psi (half the reservoir).... You will have to accept that the power you get will be less.... but your shot count will increase.... Once the gun is tuned for best efficiency at the lower power level.... you will end up with a very flat velocity string and lots of shots.... Reduce the pressure to 1000 psi and you lose even more power.... but you get tons of shots.... more than you could ever get (and still have an acceptable velocity deviation) with a non-regulated PCP.... Bob Ah I see thats kinda what I was thinking but it is good to hear it from another hopefully more knowledgeable person. At this point I am looking for a good .177 plinker to have fun with getting high shot count and some power and alot of accuracy!! Enough to shoot 100 yrds and take take flies off the wall as well. I prolly do most my plinking at 35 yrds to 50yrds. Thought about a regulated Mrod I can build that pretty affordable seems like a regulator and a spacer with a little tune magic will bet me there. ANd save me some CHA CHING!!!!! or I might do a AAMKIII but I am tired of cocking or pulling strings!!! I would just like to gas and go!!!! Co2 is not my thing!! to tempature senstive so a regulated PCP sounds right!! How the mrods doin on the regulator. .177 vs .22 ??? .177 is the cheapest for ammo and prolly get more shots taboot I wuld think?????   Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:43 am rsterne Moderator Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 2998 Location: Coalmont, BC The MRod is not regulated in stock form, of course.... an aftermarket one is available, as is one for the Disco... Just to give you an idea of what can be accomplished.... I have tested a .22 cal PCP at 495 fps (7.8 FPE) that delivers over 300 shots from the same size reservoir as an MRod (13 ci = 213 cc).... regulated to only about 600 psi.... with an incredibly flat shot string.... That will give you some indication of what can be accomplished if you don't need huge amounts of power.... The same setup at 1500 psi will deliver about 60 shots at 21 FPE.... so virtually anything in between is possible.... Bob _________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! Airsonal: Too many to count! regulated PCP     Air Gun Home Forum Index » General Air Gun Questions and Topics You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours   Page 1 of 1   All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum Main Forums----------------AirGunHome Q&AGeneral Air Gun Questions and TopicsPicture GalleryTarget Shooting: Casual, Fun and CompetitionHunting, Pest Control, Varminting People/Events/Airgun Issue Discussion----------------Introduce YourselfThe BS TopicClubs/Events/Regional/Political Airgun Issues Maintenance, Modification and Reviews----------------RiflesPistolsAntique, Collector and Novelty AirgunsBB GunsPellets/AmmoOpticsAccessoriesAirgun Smithing Buy, Sell or Trade Forums----------------For SaleWant to Buy   Note: If you are seeing "Please enter your username and password to log in." 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