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Air Gun Home Forum Index » Airgun Smithing » Sheet Metal Work Goto page 1, 2  Next    View previous topic :: View next topic  Sheet Metal Work   Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:41 am Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA So I have this piece that I made from a bicycle frame tube - hammered and plier-ed into submission (steel). It has some dents that I need to level. The dents are not huge and ugly, but they are too deep to fill with successive coats of primer. Less than 1/32", probably more like 1/64". Bondo would work, of course, but I really don't need a lot - I'm talking two strips about 12"X1". Walmart has small tubes of both body putty and metallic filler. Would either of these work, or do I bite the bullet and buy the huge can of Bondo? Does the filler go on top of primer, or on bare metal? Or another approach - I have to do some soldering anyway. Should I just "tin" the low spots a little thick and work down the solder? I know a thing or two, but sheet metal/body work is terra incognita for me. It's my turn for newbie questions. _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:53 am AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6930 Location: "Out There" Soldering/tinning would probably be the most effective in this case. The tube-based products you saw are likely finishing compounds (essentially used to cover scratches, not fill dents)- so you'd be in for the "big can" of Bondo. _________________ ` I'd say "I care." But I'd be lying. Canadian Airgun Supplier: http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront   Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:33 pm Alstone Moderator & Site Supporter Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 4139 Location: Linconshire, ENGLAND As Eric says soldering/tinning is the best way but not the easiest, I tend to use car body filler the same used for fibre glass, straight on to bare metal. Al _________________ Re: Sheet Metal Work   Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:10 pm donec Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2009 Posts: 836 Location: central Texas Pflugerville area Slavia wrote: So I have this piece that I made from a bicycle frame tube - hammered and plier-ed into submission (steel). It has some dents that I need to level. The dents are not huge and ugly, but they are too deep to fill with successive coats of primer. Less than 1/32", probably more like 1/64". Bondo would work, of course, but I really don't need a lot - I'm talking two strips about 12"X1". Walmart has small tubes of both body putty and metallic filler. Would either of these work, or do I bite the bullet and buy the huge can of Bondo? Does the filler go on top of primer, or on bare metal? The filler goes on the bare metal and is primed over and it is much better to use thin coats building up to the desired thickness. Drying well between coats. Quote: Or another approach - I have to do some soldering anyway. Should I just "tin" the low spots a little thick and work down the solder? I know a thing or two, but sheet metal/body work is terra incognita for me. It's my turn for newbie questions. With soldering you need to be careful to not have a cold/crystallized solder lump (similar to a cold solder joint in electronics) as it would not be stable and could corrode under the paint and when adding layers you risk melting the lower layers and creating cold/crystallized lumps. Note: movement of semi-cooled solder could cause the same crystallization. I acquired this knowledge via mistakes made while making jewelery and working in electronics. Due to this I would recommend epoxy paste like JB Weld. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-B_Weld or something simular. Can be bought in small amounts at most hardware stores.   Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:12 pm fritz Silver Status Member Joined: 25 Nov 2008 Posts: 2444 Location: New Jersey- outside of Philadelphia JB weld should work nicely. Apply to bare metal. Wire wheel it first, then use alcohol to degrease. _________________ "I never set out to be wierd, it was always everyone else who called me it" -Frank Zappa Speed is impressive, accuracy is deadly. It's not that I'm not a people person, it's just that I'm not a stupid people person.   Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:18 am Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA Thanks for the suggestions. I guess if I were smart I would experiment on a scrap piece first. I've never used JB Weld, but from what I've heard it ranks up there with duct tape. Just for reference: the link that donec provided says alcohol is a no-no. Donec - I understand the problem with cold solder joints (built my first shortwave radio in 1966). Keeping the piece motionless and letting it cool slowly is no problem, but I'm also considering the soldered mechanical connections that I need to make. They are about a foot apart, so heating one won't bother the other. But...doing the cosmetic "tinning" might come close enough to weaken them. Like I said, I probably need to experiment a bit on a scrap before risking damage to the work I've already done. Maybe a two-part filler is the way to go. _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:27 am kanyon Silver Status Member Joined: 09 Aug 2008 Posts: 1582 Location: New Zealand Why not use body solder , simlar to solder but for filling not sticking bits togeather. _________________ Career Infinity PCP .22 Webley Patriot .25 Hatsan mod 75 .22 Hatsan mod 99 .177 (Quattro & SAS) Kral underlever .177 ............................................. .   Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:35 am Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA Quote: Why not use body solder , simlar to solder but for filling not sticking bits togeather. How is it different from the "sticking bits together kind"? _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:25 am kanyon Silver Status Member Joined: 09 Aug 2008 Posts: 1582 Location: New Zealand Slavia wrote: Quote: Why not use body solder , simlar to solder but for filling not sticking bits togeather. How is it different from the "sticking bits together kind"? its harder...but dose require more heat to get it to flow.. you may want to pre heat the peice.."put on a range element" Its also known as wiping metal.. I just had a look heaps of You-tube vids on it... kits etc on the net.. _________________ Career Infinity PCP .22 Webley Patriot .25 Hatsan mod 75 .22 Hatsan mod 99 .177 (Quattro & SAS) Kral underlever .177 ............................................. .   Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:22 pm fritz Silver Status Member Joined: 25 Nov 2008 Posts: 2444 Location: New Jersey- outside of Philadelphia I should have added to allow the alcohol to dry first. But now I know that JB weld can be thinned by alcohol! _________________ "I never set out to be wierd, it was always everyone else who called me it" -Frank Zappa Speed is impressive, accuracy is deadly. It's not that I'm not a people person, it's just that I'm not a stupid people person.   Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:56 pm sniper Silver Status Member Joined: 28 Nov 2008 Posts: 3752 Location: Star, Idaho what I know about body work having a friend 30 years restoring cars is 80 grit/wire wheel to tooth the metal before bondo. bondo goes onto clean bare metal. there are mild acid's (phosphoric) that can be used as conditioner/cleaner prior to bondo. some are water rinse with a 24 hour window to sit bare. as far as I know zinc chromate primers are highend on steel. (most of this I've learned but not done). _________________ I believe in gun control, If there's a gun around I want to be controlling it.......   Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:17 pm Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA Quote: there are mild acid's (phosphoric) that can be used as conditioner/cleaner prior to bondo That makes sense - many commercial rust removers have phosphoric acid. So does Coca Cola, by the way. This is a kind of a tangent, but has anyone used one of those "rust converting" primers? _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:22 pm walter Veteran Member Joined: 12 Nov 2010 Posts: 181 Location: towson md. i puched a hole in my oil pan on an old bmw 3231 that i had once. it was about the size of a quarter! i globbed on jb weld and drove the car for many years after with just minor leaking. it was a crazy amount of jb but it lasted under the heat as well as the oil contact itself. good luck. its good stuff. walt. _________________ modified 1377c. first gen. Beeman hw97k. 177.cal.   Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:49 pm sniper Silver Status Member Joined: 28 Nov 2008 Posts: 3752 Location: Star, Idaho Slavia wrote: Quote: there are mild acid's (phosphoric) that can be used as conditioner/cleaner prior to bondo That makes sense - many commercial rust removers have phosphoric acid. So does Coca Cola, by the way. This is a kind of a tangent, but has anyone used one of those "rust converting" primers? yes, extensively. because we are a "green" state they are hit and miss with success depending on how the composition changes year to year. I've and great success and failure. http://www.rust007.com/knockout.htm this is what I currently have access to. 2 coats minimum. I'm not yet sold on it. It used to be oilbased. as with any rusted metal work stay away from any water base top coats and stick with strong solvent based materials. http://www.masterchem.com/masterchem/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=51d390033f9ff110VgnVCM1000008a05d103RCRD this is primer paint in one. contains glass particles. extremely hard to work with unless used in spray cans. I won't even try and run this stuff through my airless'. It's zylene based and flash dries. works good though. bad news to breathe it. you will never go wrong with an acid rinse. taco bell hot sauce cleans coins like you won't believe. _________________ I believe in gun control, If there's a gun around I want to be controlling it.......   Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:44 am Bozo Veteran Member Joined: 29 Jun 2009 Posts: 107 Location: The remote parts of El Dorado County, CA Quote: This is a kind of a tangent, but has anyone used one of those "rust converting" primers? About 20 years ago used a Duro product on the hood of my International Travelall. A light sanding to take off the loose stuff, then painted the entire hood with it. It stayed clear where there was no rust, turned black where the rusty areas were. It's still working; the beast hs been parked outside ever since. Another product a bunch of guys in a Karmann Ghia club use is POR 15. It's not a rust converter, but if you get most of the surface rust off, POR 15 is supposed to glom onto the metal and seal it so tightly that water molecules can't get in and the rust process stops. It dries *very* hard, leaving an almost glass-like surface that takes paint well and is almost impossible to remove. Due to it's impermeable coat, it prevents future rust in the area also. I haven't used it myself, but have heard of very good results with it on these rust prone vehicles. It's available from Eastwood, and is rather expensive. _________________ Sheridan Blue Streak , Barska Red Dot sight, .20 Gamo Big Cat 1200, 4x32 Ruger scope, .177 Sheet Metal Work     Air Gun Home Forum Index » Airgun Smithing You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours   Page 1 of 2   Goto page 1, 2  Next All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum Main Forums----------------AirGunHome Q&AGeneral Air Gun Questions and TopicsPicture GalleryTarget Shooting: Casual, Fun and CompetitionHunting, Pest Control, Varminting People/Events/Airgun Issue Discussion----------------Introduce YourselfThe BS TopicClubs/Events/Regional/Political Airgun Issues Maintenance, Modification and Reviews----------------RiflesPistolsAntique, Collector and Novelty AirgunsBB GunsPellets/AmmoOpticsAccessoriesAirgun Smithing Buy, Sell or Trade Forums----------------For SaleWant to Buy   Note: If you are seeing "Please enter your username and password to log in." 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