Click Here for AirGunHome.com Main Page AirGunHome.com: THE Worldwide Airgun Forum

Air Gun Home Forum Index » General Air Gun Questions and Topics » BAM/Xisico Goto page 1, 2  Next    View previous topic :: View next topic  BAM/Xisico   Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:26 am Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA This is where they make our BAMS and Crosmans: http://olympia.fortunecity.com/kickbox/377/factory971.html _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:21 am AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6930 Location: "Out There" Xisico/Xin Su only make Industry Brand/Shanghai Airgun factory items- BAM, I believe is a different factory altogether. Xisico in Texas is an importer for both, but they are not the same factory or company. _________________ ` I'd say "I care." But I'd be lying. Canadian Airgun Supplier: http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront   Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:47 pm Alstone Moderator & Site Supporter Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 4139 Location: Linconshire, ENGLAND I was quite surprised to see Industry Brands factory, from the quality I assumed they were made by some guy in the paddy fields with a big hammer and brick. Looking at the photo of the quality inspection it does appear that these guys are actually assembling the guns and no one is doing the inspection. I have repaired many of these Industry Brand guns and after a bit of work they can be a nice addition to a collection, but straight from the factory just a lump of junk. Al _________________   Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:09 pm Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA I could have sworn that XinSu, BeiNing, BeiAn, and BeiAo were all part of the BAM group in Wuxi: http://www.china-bam.com/ And that Industry Brand was made in the Shanghai Air Gun factory in, well, Shanghai: http://www.airrifle-china.com/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/index.html _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:04 am AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6930 Location: "Out There" Ah, OK- it appears they are all part of the same "corporate" grouping. Kinda creates problems for the rest of the world if these guys are all the same organization- no internal competition in China and relatively unified in sticking it to competition outside China. Perhaps they have been hiding this, dividing product lines over different names so the rest of the world doesn't catch on so easily... _________________ ` I'd say "I care." But I'd be lying. Canadian Airgun Supplier: http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront   Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:12 pm Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA Quote: Perhaps they have been hiding this, dividing product lines over different names so the rest of the world doesn't catch on so easily... This all started when I went looking for the pedigree of my (Cummins) B3's. That one was fairly simple - they are Industry Brand B3-2's from the Shanghai Airgun factory in Shanghai. The Industry Brand B3-1's don't have a butt plate, and the B3-3's have a safety. There are also three "eras" of my guns - the old, old ones without the anti-beartrap mechanism, the "newer" ones with a white plastic spring guide, and the "most recent" ones with a black plastic spring guide and white buttpad spacer. I have both the middle and recent ones. It's also interesting that my "middle-aged" B3 has an articulated cocking arm, and the more recent one has a one-piece cocking arm. (That part didn't show up anywhere in my searching.) O.K. so far. Then I got side-tracked by the XS-B3-1 (the AK-styled gun). It has nothing to do with my guns - different manufacturer (BAM), different importer (Xisico), different gun. It's the BAM's that are made in the Wuxi plant pictured above. If you look at the Xisico catalog, none of the Industry/Shanghai guns are listed - just BAM. Even if you throw in the Crosman B18/19 the BAM side is pretty straightforward. As an aside, I read a post from Stephen Archer saying that the letter "B" is from the English pronunciation of the Chinese word for "rifle," so it appears in Chinese model numbers regardless of the manufacturer. It's on the Industry/Shanghai side where things are really interesting. The Shanghai Airgun Factory is marketing their guns under both the Industry Brand and SAG labels. They appear in this country under the Tech Force name, imported by Compasseco. Compasseco is now owned by Pyramydair. There was also a refererence to Air Venturi as an importer. The Beeman name and distribution network was purchased by the Shanghai Industrial company (Shanghai Industrial Holdings, Ltd.). A Pyramydair blog says SIHL and Industry Brand are one and the same. While I couldn't find anything listing SAG as a subdidiary/holding of SIHL, I have to ask myself, "Why would SIHL be looking for a distribution network if they didn't have airguns to sell?" Quote: it appears they are all part of the same "corporate" grouping. I could disagree and say the Industry and BAM chains are completely separate. Except....take a look at the Cobra Airguns listings. They throw "BAM" and "Industry" into the same sentences. Also, consider that the Chinese don't really have free enterprise - and they have a strong central government. BAM also makes 7.62mm automatic rifles, which implies government involvement. Shanghai Industrial Holdings, Ltd. is owned by the city of Shanghai - again, government. I would have to agree with they are all part of the same "corporate" grouping in the sense that the strings are being pulled by the same puppeteers. Anybody confused yet? http://www.compasseco.com.hk/ http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/11/prweb4718024.htm http://www.compasseco.com/ http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/tag/sr-industries/ http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Bam_Xisico_Air_Rifles_pellet_guns_s/329.htm http://www.china-bam.com/ http://www.airrifle-china.com/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/index.html http://www.xisicousa.com/ _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:49 pm donec Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2009 Posts: 836 Location: central Texas Pflugerville area Quote: Compasseco is now owned by Pyramydair. I have heard this before and from what I read Pyramydair does not own Comasseco Enterprises but instead has integrated/merged with Compasseco Inc. a distributor in the US.   Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:38 pm Bozo Veteran Member Joined: 29 Jun 2009 Posts: 107 Location: The remote parts of El Dorado County, CA This is an interesting discussion, but it leads to the question; are there any brands that do *not* use the Chinese, at least for their low end models? _________________ Sheridan Blue Streak , Barska Red Dot sight, .20 Gamo Big Cat 1200, 4x32 Ruger scope, .177   Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:11 pm Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA Quote: I have heard this before and from what I read Pyramydair does not own Comasseco Enterprises but instead has integrated/merged with Compasseco Inc. a distributor in the US. Pyramydair's press release said "On September 21, 2010, Pyramyd Air acquired the assets of Bardstown, Kentucky, airgun retailer Compasseco." http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/11/prweb4718024.htm Quote: This is an interesting discussion, but it leads to the question; are there any brands that do *not* use the Chinese, at least for their low end models? At least for spring/piston guns it seems like that's the case. Maybe Hatsan and Mendoza have a small market share, but nothing like the Chinese. Here's another question: Did the Chinese buy all of S-R Industries, or just the Beeman part?? _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:32 pm AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6930 Location: "Out There" Slavia wrote: Here's another question: Did the Chinese buy all of S-R Industries, or just the Beeman part?? From what I understood from the S/R (Beeman) people last year- the whole kit & kaboodle was bought. S/R was all Chinese product anyways- sold under the name "Marksman" and the non-Chinese Beeman product (Weihrauch) they lost their distribution agreement on, but may have gained some of it back- although Pyramyd managed to get the entire Eastern-US distribution agreement with Wauhrauch. That being said, it's hard to figure out what the point of buying S/R-Beeman was all about- thus far no new products have been introduced, their business is still seemingly quite disorganized and dysfunctional, and if Xisico in Texas was not just a distributor, but also owned by Xin Se/BAM/etc.- why would the Chinese need another 'distributor'- i.e. Beeman? I suspect it may be a case of they were owed alot of money and this was more of a "trade" than a sale. _________________ ` I'd say "I care." But I'd be lying. Canadian Airgun Supplier: http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront   Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:42 pm Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA Quote: S/R was all Chinese product anyways- sold under the name "Marksman" and the non-Chinese Beeman product (Weihrauch) they lost their distribution agreement on There was a lot of Chinese product under both the Marksman and Beeman brands. Quote: why would the Chinese need another 'distributor'- i.e. Beeman? I suspect it may be a case of they were owed alot of money and this was more of a "trade" than a sale. That is certainly plausible. If S-R had a lot of inventory that they couldn't move, then they would be up to their eyeballs in debt to their Chinese suppliers. Another (speculative) thought - maybe the Chinese did buy S-R for the distribution network, but that network dried up before they could exploit it. Remember how a few years ago Walmart was full of Chinese Beeman stuff? Now it's almost all Crosman, with a little Daisy. _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:17 pm donec Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2009 Posts: 836 Location: central Texas Pflugerville area Slavia wrote: Pyramydair's press release said "On September 21, 2010, Pyramyd Air acquired the assets of Bardstown, Kentucky, airgun retailer Compasseco." http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/11/prweb4718024.htm Compasseco has at the bottom of their website page the following.... "Compasseco is now Pyramyd Air! Our companies have integrated on September 20, 2010. You will now benefit from the best both companies have to offer. We are currently working on getting Compasseco.com in line with PyramydAir.com. Pardon the dust during the remodeling!"   Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:53 am Slavia Moderator Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 4382 Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA Quote: "Compasseco is now Pyramyd Air! That's the telling part for me. The use of the word "integrated" might be to keep loyal Compasseco customers happy. So here's another question: Does Pyramydair import anything, or do they simply retail things from other importer/wholesalers? In other words, do they need to keep Compasseco whole for import license purposes? _________________ ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego!   Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:47 am AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6930 Location: "Out There" Pyramyd does import things. They had avoided this in the past, but as they grew they started aiming to "cut out the middleman" as it were. When Beeman started having issues, they went straight to H&N and Weihrauch in Gerrmany, I believe they also import other European products directly- but China they had not been involved in on their own from what I understand. Note: "Air Venturi" is a name they invented a year (two?) ago to be the importer and "label" on some of the imported products. That being said, you hardly need to buy out a business only to acquire import permits- so it seems unlikely this would have been much of a factor. More likely, if Compasseco had a deal with BAM/IB to purchase product and re-name it "Techforce" so as not to compete directly with Xisico in Texas, Pyramyd couldn't 'buy' its way in and still be able to sell the Chinese product at levels people are used to paying (Pyramyd has a surprisingly large markup on items- being the largest airgun 'store' in the US, they get "big box" pricing like a WalMart- but will carry most of a company's product line, not just a few select models). So, buying out Compasseco accomplishes two things- allows them to eliminate more competition and gives them access to a product line/lines they may not have been able to obtain at their accustomed price-point previously.   Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:47 pm donec Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2009 Posts: 836 Location: central Texas Pflugerville area Slavia wrote: Quote: "Compasseco is now Pyramyd Air! That's the telling part for me. The use of the word "integrated" might be to keep loyal Compasseco customers happy. So here's another question: Does Pyramydair import anything, or do they simply retail things from other importer/wholesalers? In other words, do they need to keep Compasseco whole for import license purposes? To me the integrated part means that Pyramydair is getting stock Compasseco Inc had but also using the contacts and resources of Compasseco Inc that they could not buy on their own. Where if they actually bought Compasseco Inc they may not have gotten these extras, but by integrating with Compasseco Inc. they are still use Compasseco Inc. BAM/Xisico     Air Gun Home Forum Index » General Air Gun Questions and Topics You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours   Page 1 of 2   Goto page 1, 2  Next All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum Main Forums----------------AirGunHome Q&AGeneral Air Gun Questions and TopicsPicture GalleryTarget Shooting: Casual, Fun and CompetitionHunting, Pest Control, Varminting People/Events/Airgun Issue Discussion----------------Introduce YourselfThe BS TopicClubs/Events/Regional/Political Airgun Issues Maintenance, Modification and Reviews----------------RiflesPistolsAntique, Collector and Novelty AirgunsBB GunsPellets/AmmoOpticsAccessoriesAirgun Smithing Buy, Sell or Trade Forums----------------For SaleWant to Buy   Note: If you are seeing "Please enter your username and password to log in." Your browser cookies have been reset or you need to register to access the topic in question. Use the 'Register' button near the top left of this page. Click Here for AirGunHome.com Main Page Powered by phpBB © 2001-2004 phpBB Group Partial Styling Supplied by Vjacheslav Trushkin Themes Database.