Air Gun Home :: View topic

awesomedick · Member

Hello Everbody:

I have read on some sites that spring torque is an issue with air rifles. Is there a forum post that addresses cures or fixes for this. I am sure this has been asked before, but being a new person at this I am not very good at manouvering around these sites.

Thanks for any help.

Rick

AirGunEric · Site Admin

If there-'s no lube and the ends of the spring and spring guides are rough- then minor spring twist/movement might occur. That being said, it is only on the initial compression and final decompression of the spring where any possible "twist" is likely to occur- as more pressure is put upon the spring and it resists, there can be no more twist. Keep in mind- the idea here is that there is some kind of rotation (i.e. re-positioning of the spring) when cocking is initiated or released. But- how many break-barrel rifles induce any sort of rotation as a result of cocking? None I'm aware of. If there is some type of "twist" this would be present in all springs- including the ones on your car's suspension system. When was the last time your mechanic told you "yup, spring broke because of rotation/torque problems"? "We'll install some new muffler bearings and fix that right up..."

What we have in many of these situations is a retired gentleman with very little to do with their time, so they come up with dubious "scientific" propositions that hold little merit in real-world applications- but it all sounds good on the surface, so people start to believe. I love the guys who promote the idea of installing roller bearings behind the spring guides and then wonder why they blow apart within a couple thousand shot cycles, leaving nothing but sh!t and corruption (roller bearings are not designed for the sort of load placed upon them by a spring compressing and releasing) in order to resolve this epic "problem" of spring torque.

I might suggest you look at each one of these "tuning" ideas and think each one through thoroughly- deciding on its merits as compared to your own practical experience with similar devices/mechanics and see just how well they stand up to scrutiny. There's no stopping people trying to sell bad ideas or bad products. When it's just "Fred" who thinks he has a good concept and is trying to help other people- right or wrong- that's one thing- but the guys that pick this up and start selling parts/products to resolve these essentially nonexistent issues are an altogether different breed.

awesomedick · Member

Hello Eric:

I really enjoy reading your replies as they clear away the fog and make a lot of sense. I asked about spring torque in the other post, but you have answered it here. Thanks a bunch. Perhaps in years to come as I become as well informed as you I will be answering the same questions and I can draw upon your wisdom to reply.

Rick

kanyon · Silver Status Member

a coil compression spring will try to unwined though out its entire
compression and re-wined as its un-compressed....
As it compresses it will increase in Dia...
A E3650 Macarri spring increases its Dia buy 2mm
from free length to full compression..
the more coils a spring has the less the un-wineding
efect is....

pete

AirGunEric · Site Admin

True enough Pete- but this is not something that can necessarily be compensated for/fought with a good end result- the winding/unwinding effect also contributes to the springs overall characteristics- even if it could be removed completely, the spring would be reduced in overall effectiveness I would expect.

awesomedick · Member

Okay. So I guess the best thing to do is make sure that all of this winding and unwinding is done as smoothly as possible. Polishing of spring ends and the right lubrication is in order. Would washers at the spring ends be of any benefit?

Thanks,
Rick

AirGunEric · Site Admin

awesomedick · Member

Hello Eric:

You are right. I am new to springer rifles. I just thought as I am going to take these guns apart I may as well do everything that can be done in the way of a tune up. I understand that these rifles have manufacturing issues because of where they are produced. I honestly don't know as I haven't dissasembled them yet and am gleaning my information from sites where the authors have. Realistically they are not made in Europe or the U.S. and are very cheap to purchase. I have three of them so I must be impressed with cost versus quality. In actuality one is equipped with a Tasco red dot scope, one with a Tasco 3-9x32 telescopic sight (very nice for the price) and the last which I purchased yesterday is left with the iron sights. I know I could have bought a much nicer rifle for what I payed for three of these, but I would have never taken it apart for fear of screwing something up. Screwing one of these up won't hurt much. Besides I have always had a soft spot for the underdog and am sure these guns can be made to perform as well as more expensive ones. I really do appreciate your sharing of your knowledge with me and I am paying attention to everything you have told me so far.

Thanks,
Rick

broommaster2000 · Moderator

Quality doesn't limit itself to any country anymore. There's a good middle way of doing things, and the Chinese have already found a way of getting their quality up.

As far as I know most parts for a lot of quality products are made in China and are assembled somewhere else. It's only the quality control that ensures quality.

Over here, Turkey used to have a bad reputation in airguns but in less then two years they have managed to turn up their quality and they're now in the cheap but decent class. They still have some flaws but then again, over here the Hatsan rifles are pretty affordable.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Cheapness/quality seems to be dependent on the age of the line/model and if anyone has made an issue of things.

For example, the quality is up quite significantly on the models a Chinese manufacturer supplies to/manufactures for Crosman- because they've been producing models on the same platform for over 5 years and Crosman makes a real issue out of quality control.

As Broom mentioned, Hatsan in Turkey may also be getting better- but this also seems to be primarily true on models that have been around for a year or two- their newest products still seem to have issues- whether by design of QC I cannot say offhand. They may eventually get better overall- but let's face it, "quality" doesn't arrive overnight in an environment where this was not a concern until someone (i.e. customers) forced it upon them.

kanyon · Silver Status Member

I have never been able to folt a Hatsan....
they are what they are..don't pretend to be a Theoben
or any think....If yer want to whack rabbits all day long
then they are as good as anything in the prise range...
And in fact are a lot better at it than some guns twice the prise...
They may not have target accury ...but its good enough to
hit a rabbit in the head at 40+ metres..

And my Webley Patriot .25 "Hatsan"..I can get 50mm groups
standing off the sholder at 30/40m with a 10lbs+ gun that
kicks like a mule..but it is starting to settle in..