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Air Gun Home Forum Index » General Air Gun Questions and Topics » mixed answers
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mixed answers 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:32 am Reply with quote
1mobilman
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I have been into firearms for about 35 years and knows basically most of the do and don't s on maintenance on them. But I am fairly new to air gunning and I purchased a Gamo hunter extreme and A RWS p5magnum pistol and I am reading a lot on lubing pellets and I am reading a lot of people saying do not lube the pellets in a spring piston gun and some say you can just don't use a lot of lube. I am wondering if by just rubbing a little of the FP10 on the pellet with my fingers is it going to hurt. I really appreciate all of the input and help. This forum looks like one of the best I have seen so far and I know I will be talking to more of you.

Thank you very much Joe D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:30 am Reply with quote
23ib0d0n
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Lube on pellets in springers could have 2 negative effects.

a] Detonation {broken spring, burnt, blown seal}

b] Piston slam {lube allows pellet to move during compression}

a] is very bad while b] is hard on the same parts, only with inertia instead of explosion
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leave the lead alone 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:38 am Reply with quote
1mobilman
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I really appreciate your response so fast I guess I will just clean the barrel every once in a while and dry it out and let the pellets do their own thing. I will just use my FP10 for cleaning and that is it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:04 am Reply with quote
AirGunEric
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The thing is, lead pellets are extremely soft and (almost) lube themselves!

OK, I'm kidding- but lubing pellets really is a tactic of last resorts. As J. mentioned, doing this on spring guns can/may cause serious problems- but even on air-driven guns (SSP, MSP, PCP) and Co˛ guns- lubing pellets is, well, dubious at best.

It's one of those things that some of the more fanatical types have engaged in trying to improve accuracy and/or velocity. Does it really work? I don't think anyone has proven it does- but I may be wrong on that, so don't quote me. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:06 am Reply with quote
23ib0d0n
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Cleaning with a cotton patch damp with simple green then a few dry patches will give good result in springers. The lead in the pellets 'season' a barrel to fill up slight machining imperfections, so harsh cleaning like one does with firearms can also be detrimental to accuracy. My p5 shoots very well and only had a few cotton patches through it 3 years ago when it was received. It has only been shot {alot} since . . . Thumb Up!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:14 am Reply with quote
AirGunEric
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I went looking, and came across this:

http://www.mac1airgun.com/maintenance.html

Apparently, the belief is that using a pellet "wax" as a lube can improve accuracy and velocity. I'm still not convinced the pellet lube idea is anything more than just trying to extract the last possible bit out of a gun/shot once all other avenues are exhausted. The other problem- which I have with alot of products, like the one mentioned in that Mac-1 article- is this belief in Dupont's PTFE (Teflon) as a lubrication enhancer. Dupont itself stated years ago (15 or so) that PTFE/Teflon needed to be applied as a surface coating in relatively high-heat conditions to perform as designed and they denied claims that it enhanced the lubrication characteristics of anything if not applied under these specific conditions. PTFE is not like molybdenum- you can't cold "burnish" something with it and have it work. So, unless someone has found a way or discovered that somehow PTFE resins contained in a lubricant somehow reduce surface tension or alter the viscosity characteristics in a desireable way- PTFE products, other than one's frying pan or the like are still more "snake oil" than science. As an interesting sort of "proof" of this concept- ever notice that no lubricant-type products that contain PTFE ever say anything more significant than "contains PTFE" or "with Teflon"- never do they claim the PTFE/Teflon is actually doing anything. Big organizations that made such claims in the past (like 'Slick 50') got smacked down by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission.

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much appreciated 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:47 am Reply with quote
1mobilman
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I really appreciate everyone input and help on the matter. I have several cans and also several bottles of Dupont Teflon Multi-use Dry,wax lubricant here which is made by finish line and it also states that fact right on the can.
I included a link if you want to also check it out.

http://www.performancelubricant.dupont.com/dp_products_multi.html

Thank you for your help
Joe D

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:24 pm Reply with quote
AirGunEric
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Here's where that gets interesting, as per that web description:

"utilizing advanced DuPont™ Teflon® fluoropolymer, organic molybdenum..." Dupont has improved their formulation and now has added or derived moly to/within it.

What does it actually say on the can (I can't read it on that page and the picture goes too fuzzy when I capture it and try to make it larger)?
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more info to look at 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:45 pm Reply with quote
1mobilman
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I went to Dupont site and located more info on the product here it is.
here is for aerosol form first.
http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a2f8061fd03.pdf

here is liquid form
http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a2f8061fd02.pdf

tell me what you think.
Joe D

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:15 pm Reply with quote
AirGunEric
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Interesting- the aerosol is using propane as the propellant- so don't use it to lube your airgun internals (it may help some plastics to disintegrate over time). It also appears, based on those ingredients it really is more of a cleaner/water dispersant than a lube. WD-40 is the same thing- mainly a cleaner and water dispersant- but because it has some lubing abilities- people tend to think of it as a lube- which it really isn't and is not very good at it anyways!

If you want to cleaning and lubing your pellets to see if it can gain you anything- I would try it. Being a 'light' lube is probably a good thing in that application.

But I'll mention it again- I don't think lubing one's pellets is really going to do much and should probably be one of the absolute last things someone does to improve their shooting. It's kinda like people in the automotive world "indexing" their spark plugs- it sounds good in theory, but no one has really been able to prove absolutely that is accomplishes anything useful.
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I relize this 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:46 pm Reply with quote
1mobilman
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I am not using the lubricant to see if I can squeeze out an extra 10 or 20fps I am mainly using the lubricant to prevent rust from ever starting on the inside of the barrel that is it. And one more thing I hear a lot of people say it actually helps seal the pellet better I guess for better performance.
One more thing I really appreciate you responding so fast.
Joe D

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:58 pm Reply with quote
AirGunEric
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I hear what you're saying about rust and sealing. However- one thing to consider is that if you shoot the gun fairly regularly and it doesn't sit for years unused- the worn lead particles in the barrel should prevent rust. For storage of long periods- maybe the lube isn't such a bad idea.

As for sealing pellets a bit better. Maybe- I would think it depends on how long the lube actually stays on the pellet skirt- i.e. does it follow the pellet fully, or a significant distance, down the barrel? If it does, OK- but a pellet with a nice tight skirt for the barrel being used vs. a very loose fitting pellet might accomplish nearly the same thing.

Try it out doing some back-back tests and let us know if you can "feel" or perceive any differences. A chrony would also help a bit I would think- shoot 50 shots no lube and average them out, then 50 with lube and average them out. For the sealing idea- if it's working, the average velocity should go up a bit. I would certainly be interested in what you find!

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mixed answers 
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