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sniper · Silver Status Member

the rule with small caliber pistols is groin or face shots.

10 shots from my maruader @ 30 fpe in the face in 20 seconds wouldn't feel good.

i still stick with .45acp. Razz

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Or as I've said before, a face full of air shotty pellets. Picking 20 of those tiny little suckers out of your lips and eyes probably would make you consider another line of work aside from home invasion.

sniper · Silver Status Member

i can agree there. f#ck pepper spary.

fritz · Silver Status Member

RatcatcherDino · Member

broommaster2000 · Moderator

Sorry guys, took a while for me to react, yesterday I went shooting after working all hot and windy day long (not a cool wind, let me tell you) and was way to tired afterwards, and today I've been working my a$$ of again, in the hot burning sun, on the dry "Grunneger" clay.

Anyway.

Yesterday I went shooting at a specified firearm/airgun range in Drachten (which is a 45/60 minute drive from where I live), with a lot of people with different viewpoints and opinions. We had fun, we laughed, and afterwards, those who didn't have to drive had a beer. We had that one thing in common, Airguns. Just wanted to share that with you guys. It was an evening well spend! Wink

I've been thinking during work on the land today, and I've come to the conclusion that there are areas where you may feel the need to protect yourself and your family by any means necessary (I'll leave it up to you if it's actually advisable or not), while in other areas this doesn't occur.

I've asked some random people around at my job, and some think that we should be able to protect ourselves better, while others are reluctant of the idea.

I personally do care about why people do certain things, and I believe that in some cases, preventive measures can be taken.

One of the things that also brings safety to a community, is well-being. Not well-fare, or wealth, but well-being.

The last 15 years, there have been a number of "problematic neighbourhoods" in the Netherlands. (I partly grew up in one). These neighbourhoods were pretty screwed up, and some of them still are. Crime ratings were, or are quite high.

People have been shot, about 12 (remember, this is a small country, everything happens on a smaller scale) and all other problems you might find in any other country (I'm not specifying here).

These neighbourhoods were partly inhabited by people with low education, of which some were drop-outs, some were immigrants (who didn't know how to adjust, and frankly there was little to no help back then) and some who were just looking for trouble.

So, the Government took action, and pumped money into these neighbourhoods, like planting new trees, building places for the kids to hang, building schools, etc. In most of these neighbourhoods we've seen a decrease of crime ratings, and overall trouble.

I remember visiting my old 'hood about 8 years back, and I saw that most houses looked crap, the playing fields looked worn, most trees didn't wear any leaves, and the roads could also use some attention. There also weren't any kids on the streets (when I was a kid I remember the streets were filled with em' and my mom confirms this)

I visited that same neighbourhood a few Months ago, and it looked pretty darn nice. I saw kids on the streets (from different ethnicities, I think that ethnic variety is important, and over here, some "problematic neighbourhoods" have a reasonably high quantity of this resource.) playing with each other. I saw places were the older kids could hang out, and I saw that one of the old kindergartens had a full refurbishment.

So in a way and in some cases, self-defence becomes less necessary if someone does something about what makes self-defence needed.

I think I agree that it's someone's' right to defend himself, although I still seriously doubt the need for a firearm to do so, again in certain scenarios. I am saying this with the least amount of knowledge on self defence weapons.

And now, I'm grabbing a beer and I'm gonna celebrate weekend. Cool

Ps: If it's true, about the long posts I mean, I'm pretty sure that we ALL have to much time on our hands and could spend it on studying anything a bit better. Mr. Green

Mark5043 · Silver Status Member

Bottom line.".DO NOT USE AN AIR GUN FOR HOME DEFENSE"!1st. choice 12 ga. 00 buck.2nd. .357 mag. 125 gr.semi jacketed hollow point.Either way it's always game over. Double Tap to the chest,one to the dome. Sorry to sound so cold,but this combo always gets it done.Just speaking from military,and police experience."Case Closed"

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

I have ignored this post over the last few days as I have been busy, but I must say that this is an airgun forum not a forum for ex powder burner devotees who can’t afford the bullets, neither is it a place to discuss which is the best place shoot someone who is attacking you.

I would suggest that if you want to compare notes on how to kill someone, how to conceal a gun or which calibre is the most effective then go somewhere else to expound you theory’s and not on an airgun site. Find somewhere else to talk crap about what you think you know about firearms, all you know is the same as 80% of all American males what you have read or been told, but I can guess not one of you as ever been shot at or attacked by a gun waving madman, but if you had your way there would be 80% of American males just waiting for one or the other to pull a gun, then you all could be happy blowing sh!h out of each other.

Al

Mark5043 · Silver Status Member

TONBON · Veteran Member

remember..this question was posed by a 14 yr old.
while a valid question for a neewbie, it has got a bit heated.

Mark5043 · Silver Status Member

donwalk · Veteran Member

there are may well thought out and well planned responses in this thread and there are some really ill concieved ones, too.

self defense/preservation is NOT a governmentally granted "right", it is a God given right. the firearm is a TOOL to give one an advantage of survivability in the "self defense/preservation" scenerio.

i personally, have been robbed at gunpoint. the feeling of helplessness is overwhelming; i've also been in combat as a member of the armed forces. i understand the use of firearms in a defensory role and the EMOTIONAL aspect of their usage...kill or be killed.

the use of a firearm in the commission self defense/preservation in most states, is NOT restricted as long as certain circumstances prevail and firearms laws are NOT being violated...even in california. one of the key factors being you'd better be able to PROVE, beyond any shadow of doubt, there was CLEAR AND IMMINENT THREAT TO YOU, OR LOVED ONE(S) LIFE.

that being said...my choice for self/home defense? rem 870 stoked with #8 shot (it's hard to miss with, will dissisapate very quickly, and will not 'overpenetrate' within the confines of the average house.) and a semi auto 9mm carbine. (i live rurally...sometimes a threat comes from creatures, other than two legged predators, and are outside near the house...the 9mm will not pose near the threat to my nearest neighbors as would a larger caliber)

the PROPER use of a "tactical", firearm mounted flashlite, is normally all that's needed.

statistics show that simply the displaying of a firearm is ususally enough to deter, all but the most determined, of agressors/intuders. but you have to be judicious there, too...too many times a person may be charged with "brandishing a firearm"

fritz · Silver Status Member

Do not use birdshot for home defense. Bird shot is for little birdies. Buck shot is for bad guys. I read that #1 buck is the best for penetration and has a couple extra pellets, but 00 works JUST FINE. John Browning's finest would still be my first choice.

I bet Sniper knows why I don't want a .46 pistol!

broommaster2000 · Moderator

I'll just use this for home defence:

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Maks2005/Highlights/Ka50TopView1oClock.jpg

Or this one if I'm with a friend.

http://www.tribulation.com/images/mi28.jpg

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Bird shot works just as well as anything at close range. I saw an autopsy pic of a person shot at close range with bird shot right in the chest. It was about a four inch diameter hole, and then a bunch of tiny holes surounding the circumference of the wound where the shot had begun to spread out.

Although, the former VP shot his friend in the face and neck with bird shot and the dude lived, so....