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Jaxom · Senior Member

I do believe we're all experiencing some finacially challenging times. So I don't fee it nessary to rehash my particular situation once more. But I'm facing a bit of a delemia.

Had someone told me even as little as a year ago that I would be more and more inclined to learning how to do machine work, I'd call them nuts. Of course the same could be said when I made the decision back in the fall of 2006 to go back to school to learn how to weld as well.

But then I joined Air Gun Home. Laughing

Then I was "talked" into buying a 22xx.. Laughing

Then my arm was bent, and I was convinced that I should modify my 22xx. Laughing

A few threads down I started a post asking about taps and dies to build a custom barrel break.

Today, while cleaning my office up I found the screw I had wanted to replace on my 2300. The sole thing that I was dissatisfied with was that when Crosman assembled my 2300kt, they didn't set the screw just forward of the trigger guard in squarely. Fortunilly for me I do have the proper tool to screw this in. But because Crosman forced it in at an angle the threads are now damaged and there's no way to get it to screw in straight. So that means I will now need add another tap to my slowly growing set of machine tools.

Furthe more, I had to buy a tap/die/bit (single size) last year to complete the build for my foundry burner.

So the delemia I'm now facing is do I continue buying "sets" for just what I need or do I save my pennies and buy a good over all set with the most common taps and dies?

Now I'm not talking about running out and buying a 3000 piece titanium coated SAE/Metric set, jus to have on hand "in case.' That would be a waste of money. More then likely I wouldn't use nearly half of it.

I have to give credit to Joe for some advice that he's reciently given me. Both privately as well here in the threads. Priavatly he was asking what skills I have to see if there's something I can do to earn some sort of income at home. After taking stock of what tools I have on hand and what I would need to offer even a miniumal amount of service should I "hang out my shingle" for a home based weld/machine/foundry service, I do realized I couldn't do it.

But not wanting to give up, with a bit of research I have found that you can build 90% of the tools one would require for such a buisness. Thank you gangery press! I've even gone so far as designing a few specialty tools myself for things that I could make to sell.

Joe has also told me buy what you can afford at the time and you can start off small and work you way upwards. I do believe I've taken this advice to heart.

I still feel though there are a few minium required tools I will need before I can seriously start advertising my home buisness. And one of those is a basic tap and die set with an accompanying drill bit set. The only other thing I believe I need to get going is a good metal chop saw. And I found I can get a low priced one at harbor fright for a $60.

With profits from this home based buisness I could slowly save up the required money I need in order to get my driver's license back. It sure beats the heck out of just sitting around waiting for something to happen.
(of course I haven't been doing that, I've been very proactive trying to rectify this situation)

I mentioned getting a basic, inexpensive chop saw from harbor frieght, I do know they also sell tap and die sets as well. Are they complete enough to do most standard jobs?

kanyon · Silver Status Member

Just buy the common sizes....get the taps in a pack of 3
whitch has ...tapper , half tapper , plug taps in the pack.
I have a metric set with all 3 in all sizes....but the go up to 24mm
in taps & dies....16mm is the biggest I have used...
so just get the common sizes.

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

I’ll go along with what Kanyon said, buy what you need, sets are ok but you’ll not use half of them, plus if you buy separately the quality is usually better.

One other thing why waste money on a metal chop saw, use a hack saw it only takes a couple of minutes to saw through a 1 inch bar, if you want to get into engineering then learn how to use hand tools first, that’s were the skill is and it’s these tools that you will use to start and finish anything you make on a machine tool.

Al

yourdaddyjoe · Supporting Member

Hey Jax,

Here are the photos of the "tap guide" in use that I promised. I does not replace skill. But when you are working on something critical that you get it right the first time... it sure does help.

Al is correct on the chop saw for single project work... But... if you are doing production... I preffer the chop over a hand or band saw... Quick and dirty... Reguardles... ya still have to clean up the cuts...

yourdaddyjoe · Supporting Member

Jax,

I have to ballance tool purchaces with what I minimaly need to do the jobs.

We orderd the Mini-Mill on Monday... it will take up to two weeks to get it. But with that purchace... then comes a whole nother delema with tooling...

Hold down kits, End & Face Mills, Rotary table, vices, and so on and so on... Not to mention... I have to make space and build a work bench for it...

The dicision for the Mill did not come lightly... I have a minimum of 5 products that will require the mill and tooling to make... So it is an investment.

These are stacks of this production run... and that ain't all of them... Rolling Eyes

fritz · Silver Status Member

Joe you do nice work. Once I get a job and a 17/22xx I'm going to have to buy one of your brakes, unless a nice TKO ldc is on sale then it will have to wait.

yourdaddyjoe · Supporting Member

Hey Fritz,

Yep... if you want a LDC... you will have to contact Mike... I am watched too closly to do anything that reduces the report...

I can bull barrel but can not do closed shoruds any more... My mentor said no!

He is the one who has to sign off on my Gunsmithing Certs... Being an apprentice is crap sometimes...

fritz · Silver Status Member

Maybe it's time to fix up the 34 real nice.

Strip and finish the stock, polish her up, throw in a JM kit and seal, and add a nice Joe muzzle brake. Joe... how much are your 5/16 ID 4" ported univ brakes?

Jaxom · Senior Member

Advice taken. Joe is right about the chop saw. For a "pro" tool I would need a quality hortizonal saw, which of course can run into the thousands. While I'm still just a small guy starting out, a $60 metal chop saw could mean the fiffernece between getting a job or not.

I'm looking at tap and die sets the same way. There's just no justification, other then say winning the lottery, for me to go out and buy a 200 pc titanium sae set, only to need buy another set, that is equally as expensive for metric.

I'm more of the mind, is it worth it to buy a $40 combo sae/metic set from harbor frieght vs buying the taps and dies individually. Then just build upon this with individuals as needed or I have enough cliental to justify something more expensive.

To get the advice I seek, for one moment please divorce my situtation as to what joe is doing. The jobs I seek are more welding related and less on the machine shop end of metal working. The only reason I'm concidering the purchase of a tap and die set or individuals so I can do some nominal machine work. Prime examples would be that of various tools I can build by welding.

Where joe has just invested in a milling machine, down the road, in order to become more competitive, I will need to upgrade my mig welder to something that can do more then just 3/8" thick steel. I'll also need to eventually invest in a stick machine, and tig machine and a plasma cutter as well. And I will do so...slowly...as jobs and income warrent.

fritz · Silver Status Member

I wouldn't upgrade the MIG machine just yet. Get a bona fide TIG machine, because TIG can run stick also. You should be fine with your MIG for now.

kanyon · Silver Status Member

very nice work Joe......tooling a mill..hope yer got deep pockets
If possable get 4 flute cutters..far better than 2 flute.

jaxom..stick with yer mig they are ok for most work....
but later on $ permiting get a DC inverter...yer just can't beat a tig weld.

I have a couple of tigs...150 amp DC inverter & a 180amp AC/DC with Hi f
for alloy....Very rearly use the mig anymore

yourdaddyjoe · Supporting Member

Jaxom · Senior Member

Actually my plan for welding upgrades, was to get a mid range welder, something like a hobart handler 180. It's a very popular unit at the welding forum I belong to.

But I was also concidering this. Was to get a generator/stick unit, then just get the tig inverter later for that. That way I can run all three "on location" if I got an off site job request. Also, by having the generator, I could also run stuff like a chops saw, grinders and other tools while on site too.

Worst case scenario...if the power at home goes out, I can keep the fridge and furnace going during the black out as well.

Joe, I just took another look at that tool's photo's. Correct me if I'm wrong buy you're drill/tapping the side of something round with that unit, right? Can it also be use to add threads to end of a rod or pipe? In this case, the barrel of my 2300?

Ya know, I totally forgot one of the reasons I started this thread in the first place. As I mentioned in the beginning of the thread, the assembler that put my 2300 together put that screw in at an angle. I was going through my computer tool kit and happened to notice I have a slim hex drier. I tried to put that screw in straight, but the threads are now crossed. What tap would I need to fix the threads so I can put that screw in the right way?

yourdaddyjoe · Supporting Member

Yes... You have a V on the bottom to square up to tap on tubing and corners....

Here are some notes for your note book....

8-32 for the thread in ????

Front Breech Screw (Under Bolt) 4-48x1/4"
Rear Breech - CR Plastic 8-32x7/8"
Rear Breech - CR Steel 8-32x3/4"
Barrel Bands and CR Steel Breech 8-32x1/8" Cup Point Set Screw
Valve 6-32x1/8"
Trigger Side Plate 4-40x3/8"
Grips 6-32x1/2"
Front Grip Frame 2240/2300 8-32x1/4"
Front Grip Frame 2250/2400 8-32x3/8"
Rear Grip Frame 22xx 8-32x7/16"
Fore Stock 2250/2400 6-40x1/4"

Now you know my secrets... BTW... the Stainless Steel Screws are in... I just have to make up the kits....

kanyon · Silver Status Member

Jax...If you intend to use a mig for work ?....
A 180amp is just don't cut it..6mm is the thickest
it will weld...it will stick thicker, but thats all its doing
sticking it together...my 260amp Cebora struggles
on 10mm..Can't beat the old arc with low hydrogen rods Smile