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Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Dow down 700 points. Not lookin' good for the US economy folks.

cw · Banned

I'm all caked up and still getting my cheddar, so we're
all set for the rough ride ahead here.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

The market is all about "perception". So if all the screaming "experts" would just STFU about imminent doom- I'm sure everything would be fine.

The "experts" never seem to STFU- so we'll see...

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

It's a self fullfilling prophecy. You ask the people why they are selling, they say because the market is dropping. But it is the selling that is making the market drop.

And what caused this? There was a run on the banks in which a bunch of people pulled out their money due to a lack of confidence in the banks. But what made them loose confidence was the fact that the banks became unstable due to everyone pulling all of their money all at once.

We'll see how this ends up playing out. But today was the worst point loss on the Dow in history, so it's certainly not looking good.

cw · Banned

They need to disband and make the stock market illegal.
Companies need to make it on their own. They are so worried
about making the stock holders money that they throw
consumer interests out the window.

thepaladin · Senior Member

Wow twice in a day. It'll never happen of course, but the whole idea behind the "stock market" is flawed, and possibly immoral. Compaines can g have investors without the investors selling and reselling the companies interest. Buying and selling the sweat of others. Same with the commodity market. "boy I hope there's a drought or a hurricane, or a torinado, or whatever so my Beans, sow bellies, etc. gets to be really valuable."

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

From what I gather, poor folks like me don't really have investments, so I reckon that it is only the rich bastards losing all the money.

Jaxom · Senior Member

Guess that depends on which party you side with. One particular party seems to believe anyone that works means they're "rich" and should be taxed repeatedly.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

The very fact that these banks have already failed, and because the government said "we'll look into a bailout"- then nothing happened of any real significance in the market until the "bailout" was not approved, the market starts to fall apart, proves there is no "reality" to this BS- it's all perception in people's minds.

Unfortunately, it's not just the "rich" who lose money- people with 401k's will lose (in the short term anyways)- but it will bounce back. My father-in-law ended up working a year longer than he wanted when the tech stocks crashed 8 years ago- but by 2006 he was fully recovered and you'd never guess he had more than a few sleepless nights a few years earlier. He didn't have to work that extra year- but the 'fear' of the markets got to him, so he did.

thepaladin · Senior Member

Its the set up we live in. In 29 the market crashed due to mostly the same things we see today. Dishonest dealing and an artifically inflated market allowing certin execs to make big paydays. the problem is the way that "they" (the same people as "them") have things structured the fall out hits the rest of us/ In the 30s the banks forclosed on the farmers who had gotten into the habbit of borrowing each spring to plant and then paid the debt "partly" in the fall. Once the money tightened up, the loans didn't come through, the crops either didn't get in or failed due to the coinciding dust bowl. Then the banks owned a lot of farms they couldn't cell, and had no cash. the banks went under due to the bad loans, people lost their life savings..... The government came up with lots of wonderful and largly useless plans to end the depression, but it was finally WW2 that ended it.

This time there is the FDIC, but the banks are taking the 401Ks, the IRAs and the pension plans down with them. And we as a country are about to vote in the same bunch that failed to get us out of the last one. How will we get out of the mess caused by overextending our national credit? We're going to go deeper into debt. I espically like the fact that there have been billions (that's with a b) of ear marks attached to the new bail out bill. it'll be interesting to see what gets through. I do fear tha the follow-up may not fall under the heading of interesting if the money supply locks down like it did in the 30s. ASnd by the way we didn't have the national debt then we have now.

Slavia · Moderator

Amigo · Veteran Member

Slavia:
I believe you are absolutely right!
There is only a thin gossamer line between the use of paper currency and the barter system. The fact is, the two are only separated by faith and confidence which by the way, also allows the credit system to function.
When it comes to greedy excesses, the repeal of the Glass Stegal Act in 2005 did not help anybody but the greedy. Thus I won't mind seeing punitive measures applied to those who got us into this mess as a condition involved with a solution.
Maybe its good that SSI wasn't privatized... wow - dodged that bullet!
Has anyone tried to tote 50 geese to town to cover the cost of an ox lately?
Please excuse my rant,

Amigo

Slavia · Moderator

50 geese for an ox? Why, in my day it was only 25 plus a few apples!

Amigo · Veteran Member

Slav:
Ain't inflation a downer!
Regards,
Amigo

AirGunEric · Site Admin

If you look at the "science" of Economics- the majority of it is a "faith" system. As long as everyone believes in its "laws" or "rules" things function. As soon as people stop reading the economic 'bible' of the moment (i.e. Keynesian theology- yes, I'm using the term theology quite intentionally)- it all falls apart...