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Pie Man · Member

Just like Rogerflat said to you need to bait them in and for your gun get a gun that you are accurate and profficient with. When you are realy good with your gun get some jsb predators they do teh work and do your huntin

cw · Banned

Actually the .22 will go quite a bit further than the .177.
The .177 will slow at a much greater rate than the .22.

This is because the .22 has a much greater mass (weight) in proportion
to it's frontal area than the .177.

23ib0d0n · Moderator

The .177 has a much lower bc and atmospheric 'friction' consequence in subsonic systems is a minimal difference for the larger .22, while the mass is normally about doubled. The .22 is about 1/3 additional surface area, while doubled mass really improves resistance to other forces acting upon the pellet.

Try a test. Shoot H&N Laser in .177 and .22 at targets placed at 60m and another at 80m and see which 'groups' drop below the aimpoint furthest.

Try the same test with Crosman .177 Premier Lites and .22 Premiers, although the .22 Premier aren't quite double the mass.

Try the same test with JSB .177 Exact Express and .22 Exact.

Post your result. Wink

cw · Banned

If they are shot out of the same powerplant, the .22 will drop more than
the .177, up to a point.

If they are shot at the same VELOCITY, the .177 will loose speed
way faster than the .22 and after 50-60 yards will be going a lot slower
than the .22 and the trajectory will suffer a logrithmic drop.

My test was done by shooting Kodiaks at 960 fps.

thepaladin · Senior Member

A .22 will have similar balistucs at the same "speed" not the same "power". It will take more power to throw a heavier pellet at the same speed. Note several rifles that use the same power plant for different calibors. The .22 will have less "speed" and if there is a .25 less still. That does not mean the pellet will deliver less power on impact. Just be sure that your power plant will handle the calibor you choose.

For hunting I would prefer the .22, but for a bird or "small" rat a .177 will do, though not at 60 yards, much less meters. Don't get sucked in by the "wow our rifle's fast!" ratings. A small pellet can actually punch through a bird, miss the vitals and cause a slow painful death later, thus the advise on head shots. Look more at the power your shot will deliver (http://www.airgun1.com/articles/kineticenergy.html) this is a kinetic power calculater to help with that.

In the end you'll have to make your own choice, I like to use the heavier pellet (with enough gun) as it will deliver more punch on connecting. If you choose a .177 I'd suggest working on your shots till your comfortable that you will make a head shot.

Just my $.02 worth.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

I don't know, my experience is that higher velocity is better than lower velocity, regardless of the caliber. Some people think that exit wounds are bad because it means some energy is wasted when the pellet exits, but I look at it as creating TWO wounds instead of one.

thepaladin · Senior Member

I'm not sure you got what I was saying. The problem is not an exit wound. the problem "can be" that the smaller pellet can pass through the tissue doing only minor damage. This can lead to death by blood loss, or slow death from minor damage to say one lung, or even no kill at all but a crippled animal. I advised that if you want to use a .177 go for a head shot.

Again, and not trying to hard to get along with, speed or fps is only part of the story. whether you choose a .177, a .20, a .22 or even a .25 look at the power you're going to deliver at what range and at your ballastic arc. Or what you can hit at what range. I like the .25, but I have 2 rifles. One is far more powerful than the other. The less powerful rifle I usually use Beeman Lasers or some light pellt in. The magnum one I load with heavire pellets (I haven't had this one as long and have it sighted in with Silver Aces, I plan to try others later including round ball pellets).

Many companies (Gamo does this regularly now I believe) rate their rifle's "speed" with the regular PBA pellets. In .177 that's a 5.4 grain allow pellet. You'll get different performance with say Crosman's 10.5 grain Ultra Magnums, or Beeman 7.1 grain High Impacts, or maybe the 6.9 grain RWS Hollow Points.

My whole point is it's not as simple as feet per second. It's mostly application of which gun to which game. I own three different calibors (no .20s) They all have their proper application, it depends on what you plan to do with them.

Old Pa · Member

I've had an early production .177 RWS 48 for more than 15 years. Early on, we had a grey squirrel infestation around our bird feeders that the 48 solved and filled the pot for squirrel stew. Vibrating Smiley

At the time it was belting out the rifle RWS Mesterkugeln (8.4 gr) at just over 1000fps and within eight yards would throughshoot the big grey squirrels' chests. Didn't stop them, but they pumped out within fifteen yards.

More recently, we have had red squirrels getting into the attic and making a general nuisance of themselves. The closest I can generally get to them is 25 yards, and I grew up stalking within three feet of chipmunks (the effective range of my first pump Daisy BB gun Blah Blah

).

Last week, I shot one with the 48 and a 8.4 gr flat Mesiterkugeln. My last image through the sope was blowing the little sucker straight back off the top of the fence, just like in the movies. Put the 48 down and went out to admire my work. No dead red squirrel. No wounded red squirrel. No blood sign. Only the damn squirrel chittering at me from my neighbors woodpile. Hmm.

So for the near term I pulled out some 9.5 grain flat point RWS Super-Mags. These chronoed at @855 fps. So I cleaned the lubricated the 48's chamber, barrel, and spring and the Super-Mags are now getting out around 880 fps. And I reset the scope zero for one inch high point of impact with the heavy pellets at 25 yards. That's what I could fix with what I had in the house.

The long term fix is a little different. I ordered some .177 10.6 gr. Beeman Kodiak Match pellets; not only are they a well known heavy and accurate pellet, but they have a domed rather than flat tip. And I ordered a refurbished .22 RWS Model 460 combo and some .22 21.1 gr. Beeman Kodiak pellets for it. This should to the job for as far out as I can reliably and consistently hit a two inch target.

thepaladin · Senior Member

The only thing I'd suggest is change to head shots. Less through and through and usually quicker kills.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Old Pa · Member

These red squirrels are about one third the size of our grey squirrels and only about fifty per cent bigger than the bull chipmunks. Head and chest vitals well under an inch. And I wasn't planning on eating them. Yikes!

thepaladin · Senior Member

Not to sound...well anyway, my grand-dad taught me to shoot when I was very young (he and my dad started instructrion when I was 4 and still not able to lift the .22 alone). My mom's dad always told me it was a shame to shoot a squirrel anywhere but the eye. You said you could place your shot in a 2 inch circle, that shold do it. You get a much quicker and sure kill with a head shot, and you don't lose meat!

I'll bet you can do it you're just not confident enough....yet.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Try hitting a bird's head. It's a third the size of a squirrels head and it it constantly flickers back and forth.

You should go for the head on tree rats, especially if you are going to eat them. They are too tough to go for body shots.

thepaladin · Senior Member

Ya pigons are sometimes a different story as (as you mentioned) they bob their heads as they move. Got to catch them standing still. Laughing

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

The one good thing is that their instinct is to "freeze" when they sense danger, so that makes them perfectly still for targeting. However, there is a fine line between them sensing danger, freezing, and then spooking and flying off. I experimented with making subtle noises and makeing small circular motions with the end of the barrel just enough to draw thier attention, but not enough to scare them off.