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Air Gun Home Forum Index » General Air Gun Questions and Topics » Spring or Gas Piston (Cold Weather performance)
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Spring or Gas Piston (Cold Weather performance) 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:28 pm Reply with quote
Howard Blackburn
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Hello all,

Although I've been having fun with BB guns, airsoft guns, .22 LRs, shotguns (hunting) etc. for about 25 years now, I have next to no experience with pellet guns.

As a former competitive shooter (HS rifle team) I'm looking forward to picking up a good, mid range level rifle (.177 as I have no interest in hunting any longer!) that I can shoot year round up here in New England. I'm in the market for a well built, accurate rifle for plinking @ 10 - 100+ meters.

Given the fact that I'm at my busiest, work wise, during the Spring - late Summer months, my prime shooting time will basically be from the Fall -Late Winter each year.

Temps around these parts routinely drop into the 20s (F) during the winter months.

My question is: whether or not I should purchase a normal spring or gas piston powered rifle. I'd prefer to get it right the first time around, so I'm just fine with dropping an extra $100 (i.e. for an upgraded gas piston rig) or so if doing so will ensure that the performance of the gun will be reliable 12 months out of the year.

I'm hoping that someone with some experience on the matter might be able to chime in and lend some perspective as I'm not sure as to whether or not I should believe the marketing claims regarding the gas piston vs. spring piston design and their respective performance in cold temps.

I just joined this forum - glad that I stumbled upon it.

Thanks in advance for any insight that folks might be able to provide.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:11 pm Reply with quote
sniper
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hi and welcome,

a gas ram is less affected by weather than a spring as it's not using
a coiled spring under tension. a gas ram uses a pre-pressurized strut
(you seem like you've done some homework).

to have zero affect on weather you're looking at a PCP (pre-charged pneumatic). these give 15-30 full power shots filling from a high pressure pump or scuba tank.

how much are you looking to spend???

if you're range is $400ish skip the springer/ram.

between the 3 platforms your choices are down to only 2 dozen guns. Shocked Laughing

it's a matter of how involved you want to get with the hobby down the road as to what to buy now. it's very hard to "get it right" the first time which is why the for sale section is so active. Laughing

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:30 pm Reply with quote
Howard Blackburn
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Greatly appreciated Sniper.

I'm okay with up to $400 (I'll save a little longer if need-be) but I think that my wife would kill me if I went above that Smile

I've been doing some homework, yes, but I'm not going to rush into the purchase and am eager to learn more, so your feedback is a real help.

I prioritize accuracy over FPS, that's for sure. I'd like to purchase a rifle that I could still enjoy shooting 10 - 15 years from now, not some cheapo that I'll want to get rid of after 6 months when I'm struggling to hold tight groups.

Once again, I'm no pro, but I did shoot competitively for a while (we used 22s at the time though, not airguns like a lot of HS programs do these days) so I'm in the market for a rifle that can perform well out to/around 100 meters.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:13 pm Reply with quote
AirGunEric
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I'm not sure I would agree that a gas-ram strut is somehow less affected by weather than is a typical spring- the same factors apply to both- lubricant viscosity and temperature-related expansion/compression. If anything, I might suggest the gas-ram would be MORE likely to be affected by cold temperatures as the seals in/around the chamber will also condense- hopefully not enough to cause any issues, but I have not heard of anyone testing this. I have not heard of any significant issues with a regular springer in cold weather- so I am at a bit of a loss trying to determine what Sniper is suggesting (?!?)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:24 pm Reply with quote
Mark5043
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Welcome!....Just a suggestion....if you have $400.00 to spend go with a Benjamin Discovery PCP...nothing I have ever owned can compare to the power,and accuracy,and reliability for the price.I got mine through Sunshine airguns for $269.00 with the pump,and it has out performed...by far anything I have ever owned in the price range.Once you get used to it you will be able to hit quarter sized targets,at 70 yards,more often than not...... provided you have some good glass installed on it. Wink

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:05 pm Reply with quote
sniper
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i got that info off of internet research relating to how both perform
in colder temps.

highlighted under "gas springs".

http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/07/benjamin-trail-nitro-piston-hardwood-part-1/

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:14 am Reply with quote
Howard Blackburn
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Hey Mark,

Thanks for the tip. I just checked out the specs on the discovery and... I like what I see!!! For general target shooting, I like the idea of not having to stop and re-break the barrel every shot too! And with the compressed air design, I guess that takes care of the shooting in cold weather debate (assuming you stick to air vs. CO2).
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:57 am Reply with quote
AirGunEric
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sniper wrote:
i got that info off of internet research relating to how both perform
in colder temps.

highlighted under "gas springs".

http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/07/benjamin-trail-nitro-piston-hardwood-part-1/



Reading B.B. Pelletier, aka Tom Gaylord, aka "PA product promoter" I would disagree with his theoretical statements on gas-ram vs. spring. He first assumes that the springer has "heavy lubricants" which will be an issue in colder temperatures ("heavy lubricants" are only true in the case of Chinese-made "sludge goo" lube to prevent corrosion or old-school thinkers who still mistakenly believe "tar" in a springer is a good thiing). He also asserts that a gas-ram is harder to cock due to some idea of "constant pressure- which is only applicable at the lower-end of the power-output scale (i.e. on a lower-powered gas-ram vs. springer the gas-ram probably is harder to cock, but at the Magnum-level they are going to be equivalent).

The testing was not done by Gaylord, but by someone known as Earl "Mac" MacDonald- who can only be found on the web through items related to Gaylord since July 2010- as in he is likely a PyramydAir employee or Gaylord associate- not an independent tester/hobbyist. The testing also does not include anything related to cold weather conditions- only the statements referenced earlier.

So, take it for what it's worth, but I question most of the items in the "review" and think Gaylord is talking out of something other than his mouth on this one.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:58 am Reply with quote
broommaster2000
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Those Discos are fun little toys. But it's tradition you don't keep em original. Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:31 am Reply with quote
donec
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When looking at PCP rifle cost, don't forget to figure the cost of the scuba tank and connecting gear. From all I have read pumping up a PCP rifle is a lot of work and not much fun.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:48 am Reply with quote
broommaster2000
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donec wrote:
When looking at PCP rifle cost, don't forget to figure the cost of the scuba tank and connecting gear. From all I have read pumping up a PCP rifle is a lot of work and not much fun.


Agreed, it's doable but not recommendable.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:26 pm Reply with quote
oddtodd
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I'll stick to my little quest springer. I know there are a lot nicer ones, but I can't justify spending the money for a while. I may be buyin that NPSS that walmart sells, but that would be it.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:45 am Reply with quote
packrat
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oddtodd said----- I'll stick to my little quest springer. I know there are a lot nicer ones, but I can't justify spending the money for a while. I may be buyin that NPSS that walmart sells, but that would be it.
Sounds just about what I said before I bought the $300.00 Crosman NPSS, the Talon SS, the 1250 Dominator and finally an Air Arms S410.....just to name a few !

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:24 am Reply with quote
broommaster2000
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Knowing Todd he'll really stick to his springer. He did own a Disco if I recall correctly. Didn't like it, no sir.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:08 pm Reply with quote
oddtodd
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broommaster2000 wrote:
Knowing Todd he'll really stick to his springer. He did own a Disco if I recall correctly. Didn't like it, no sir.
I was one of the summer winners of an story contest by crosman. I won the rifle, and even being free it disappointed me. If had paid actual money instead of literary work, I would have really been pissed!!

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Spring or Gas Piston (Cold Weather performance) 
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